Heroines Kickstarter

[slev]

However, it is also the fact that society implies "gender roles", that we feminists aim to do-away with, that say that women shouldn't be doing this kind of work, as they're too weak. At the same time though, those same gender roles tell men that they should be doing this kind of work, because they shouldn't be week like women, shame on you if you can't do it.

Extrapolating from this I'm more of a feminist than I thought I'd be.

A LOT of people are. As I've said previously, the problem is not the (core) philosophy, it's more the misconceptions about what it (and the terms it uses) actually means.

[Goblin-King]

DANGER! This topic now takes a new direction!

Definitely not.

I was studying five years to have a good salary.
If somebody told me "You can do what you want but you won't earn more" then I would have taken an easy-going job that i could forget in the evenings.

Furniture craftsman or five star cook or bridge watchman (you know the guy who presses the button to open the bridge if a ship comes).... something like that.
Instead i am electrical engineer (which is my passion, too) but i don't anymore do a crap in my field since a couple of years...

Aah... the eternal counter argument to communism (which is basically what cynth suggested); "If everybody gets paid the same, nobody would want to educate themselves to do advanced work".
Are you telling me, if the salaries were the same, you'd rather watch a bridge all day long rather than work as an electrical engineer?
I think there will always be enough people with passions for certain lines of work to keep important positions filled. I would like to think most people takes the education they do because it's something they actually want.
A current problem right now (in DK at least) is actually that we can't get people to take low-salary jobs. And honestly I can understand why people don't.
With a system like this, even though you have a 5 year education, but can't find work in your line of work, you'd still be able to take e.g. a cleaning job for a time and maintain the same salary. That's a good thing.

It's also worth noticing that equal salary doesn't mean everybody can be a bridge watchman. There's only so many bridges that needs watching. People would also still need to be hired.
In this society you and me would never ever land that job. It would be given to the war veteran with no legs or someone like that. He would contribute the best he could and be paid the same as everyone else.

But how about those who don't want to work? Another popular counter-argument.
Don't people generally want to do something? Problem is they generally don't get paid nearly enough for what they want to do - or people don't want to pay a reasonable cost for what you offer.
I'd like to see a system where there was a basic salary and a +salary. Everybody would get the basic salary. Even if they sat at home watching tv all day. You'd be able to maintain a simple existence.
But if you could document you were actually providing a service, either by actual employment or by enough people using your service, you'd get the +salary.
You'd like to paint minis all day? Do it as a hobby and get the basic salary. Offer it as a service and if enough people accept your service for it to constitute a job, you'd get the +salary. Very simplified!
Certain jobs should also get certain bonuses. Like policemen having a dangerous job etc.

People always seem to think it would be lazy anarchy, but obviously there would be rules, regulations and control like in today's society.
And before anyone mentions Korea or Russia... Those are not true communist societies. Both are in my view scams to give the government more power.
That's really it, isn't it? The weak point has never been people not wanting to work. It's governments being corrupt.

Don't you forget to remind me when that other Kickstarter is going online. 8th February.

Pull out your phone. Right now. Put it in your calendar with a reminder. Do it!

[knightkrawler]

To add to that, services could (or should) become way simpler.
We don't need hundreds of competing car manufacturers. What about one, offering three different models, each an upgrade to the next in three different price ranges, fitting the theme presented by Goblin-King?
What about food? Do we need chili in our cheese or is it enough to offer cheese and chili?
Do we need 28 different combinations of muesli from one manufacturer alone?
Do we need to have premanufactured beer with lemony goodness in it?
Do we need cigarettes?
Competition in the food sector and our unwillingness to pay for proper food is killing Americans right now and will be killing Europeans pretty freakin' soon.
Choice is an illusion, like energy drinks, reality TV, and chicken meat are.

Competition and Capitalism and Democracy are the biggest ruses in human history and everyone seems to believe in them because of extensive mindfuck. They will destroy us from the inside out, or to put it into perspective, from the hierarchical bottom up. Right now a regular wage in Germany makes you think thrice about buying a lot of vegetable or quality regional meat. You can't afford it, really. So as long as that is the case, we are going to be wage slaves. And we are, make no mistake.
One more thing: taxes on fresh water are coming. Chips for your wrists are coming. The Hunger Games are coming.

As a private person you can now buy drones equipped with cameras. What do you think spy agencies have? Think hard.

[Anderas]

Yes i think i would take the bridge job. And yes I would have studied electrical engineering, i admit.
You know why?

I would put an automatic system into existance with a Rasperri Pi, that warns me with a siren and a red light if there is a ship about to come. The prototype would take me two days. The professional, secured system with radar; redundancy and everything would take me another three months; thanks to google i would plug together save, tested systems.
And then?

Then i would be painting minis, soldering electrics, programming Excel or Microcontrollers with stuff i like, develop game rules, develop electroplatines, building small models, make them make sound or light or movement, all day long.
If there's a ship, my system would warn me.

Simple as that. Salary for nothing --> i would do hobby with that time.

KK, actually, germany is a paradise in terms of salary/food price relation. Don't you complain about that, really not. I have a high salary here in france, that's why i am here. But then, even i with my salary get pipi in my eyes when i see the price you pay here for basic simple food.
Simple example: a visit to a mediocre restaurant will cost 30 Euro per person. In Germany you can have much better food in a good restaurant for 10 or 15 Euro; plus you have a lot more choice in terms of restaurants. Think about it.
It's actually a failure in the french system. You could go and compare prices on Amazon.de vs Amazon.fr: Amazon is known for trying to be cheap. Amazon.fr will be a lot more expensive than Amazon.de. It's crazy.

And democracy, i don't say anything about democracy. Just take a look at the european "migration period" and the following "middle ages", and you know why a dictatorship / heritage system doesn't work. When our president shall be exchanged, we go voting. In a heritage system you go making war each time (each! single! time!) because there is always somebody not accepting the new authority. So if you want changes without war, you prefer democracy.

That doesn't say anything about the quality of the government, though, that's for sure. North europe had had a lucky period with some skilled and not-too-much corrupt politicans, but there is no guarantee of course. As soon as the government fails to deliver the mandatory services, you'll have the same problems like we had 1000 years ago. Refer to Venezuela since 5 years, or any of these corrupt oligarchy/cleptocracy systems in the east (Ukraine, Russia, Near east, middle east... aaah there are so many of them!)

[knightkrawler]

Democracy as is: 100,000 people choose a regional representative.
That representative makes decisions.
Now let's assume, the 100,000 people he represents would be able to make that decision with one vote each.

The representative does this with many decisions over a period of several years. Many decisions.
And for each of these decisions, do you think he has his 100,000 votes under his wing?
They are always of one opinion? Kid me not.

Democracy as it should be:
Everytime there's a political decision to be made, any person who has the right to vote, gets notified as soon as they try to use any device connected to the internet.
There's the options and a shortlist of information (that shortlist is the most difficult thing to implement here).
You cannot use your device as long as no decision has been made by you. Of course, "I don't give a fraggle" is an option. It would be fast and completely voluntary.
Unfortunately, this has weaknesses. We would have to think about information, the media, advertisement (which should be forbidden just like that), law text and jurisdiction.

But at least, with the internet around as it is, this is a model completely overthrowing democracy as it is now.
Anderas, I didn't say that democracy when implemented functonally is a bad thing as a political model.
I did say that it is a ruse. It is done wrong. Americans can go vote against Obama, yes. But who will they get?

[Anderas]

Yes, you're right - one could imagine a more basic democracy with the smart mobile devices available to everybody. Quick decision making.

Three big disadvantages:

Think about protecting minorities: 100 000 on the road to protest when homosexual marriage was allowed in france. For three consecutive weeks. 30 000 when it was for protesting against muslim terror. Protesting against homo marriage was more important to the people than a hundred people killed by terrorists.
Direct democracy does not at all care for minorities. We should guard Human rights somehow; also for minorities.

Think about budget: Every decision costs money. You want a bankrupt state? Just go and implement every people's wish as law, you'll be bankrupt in less than a year.

Think about freedom: You are free to do what you want, if NO rule and NO law exists to tell you how, when and where to do something. A good democracy does NOT decide some things for the people; but leave that decision to the individuals. State religion, anybody? if you force the people to vote, on every small problem, you enforce that every single tidbit of your life will be regulated. In germany we have as much as 20 guaranteed freedoms. In direct democracy you could change that easily. Wait for the weekly survey that it shows your preferred result, then be fast to put that decision to vote on your smartphone. Democratic tyranny.


No, it is good that a Problem needs to be big before our lawmakers care. That guarantees a bit of freedom. It is good that our lawmakers discuss budget each time. It's their function, after all. It's good that not each people's mood results in a law by direct voting. It's good that our lawmakers block each other to a certain extend, so that our 20 basic freedoms remain untouched.
Negative recent example is poland. A short time high in the people's mood created an extremist government, and they're drastically reducing basic freedoms now.

Bad is corruption. No system works if there is too much of it.

Best would be to have a fraud-free voting system (is developed, but is not employed anywhere on the world because it contradicts the politican interests...);
Then make two votes in a distance of two weeks to avoid short time high's in the mood (Germany: one vote. Poland: one vote. France: 2 Votes in 1 week distance. The second vote was, until now, stopping Marine lePen from getting real government work to do)
Then have an independent, enforced system to control corruption worldwide and allow that system to remove politicans from their post quickly (measurement exists, but has no consequence)

[Goblin-King]

(My bet is that there is already a warning system in place to warn about ships... Never been a bridge watchman, so I'm only guessing...)

Anyways...

Fact is that we have more than enough to support everybody properly...
The problem is that money is being funneled away from the lower and middle class. The trickle down effect is a blatant lie. The money goes to the top and stays there.
Society could easily pay everyone a "citizen-salary" that would allow a decent existence with nothing in return.

I agree with kk about the flawed premises of democracy. Like communism it looks good on paper, but really, we just exchanged one ruling class for another.
We are still at constant war. The lower and middle class is still being suppressed. There are still poor people. Democracy has literally solved no problems.
Danish politicians decide their own salary. They get full pension after a month as a minister. They can retire several years earlier than everybody else. That's not much different than the absolute power of kings.
Even the policy is being decided largely by businesses who have the capital to do extensive lobbying.
The voting process is nothing more than a way to pacify the public. Get the sense of making a difference, then go 4 years without having any influence on anything.
It's clear that in it's current form democracy is not a system that exists for the sake of benefiting the public.
"by the people, of the people, and for the people." is not a thing.

We think brainwashing and propaganda is a thing of Nazi Germany, but really it takes place in USA and Europe and most places right now.
It's important that you vote. It's better to vote blank than not voting at all. Even a blank vote shows you support democracy.
Every Danish teenager can quote these lines. But why is it important to show support to a system that doesn't work in your favor?

I guess what I'm saying is I wonder why people fight so hard to protect democracy while it barely even works.
Why not give a modern version of communism a try? It certainly has much potential for a better society for everybody, not just a small elite.
Of course the obvious answer is that the ruling class won't let us.

[Anderas]

I guess what I'm saying is I wonder why people fight so hard to protect democracy while it barely even works.
Why not give a modern version of communism a try? It certainly has much potential for a better society for everybody, not just a small elite.
Of course the obvious answer is that the ruling class won't let us.

Again, democracy is not a full system. Democracy is just a way to exchange the top politician without having war each time. Real war. With burning houses and killing people. The rest of the system... can be good or not, work or not; mostly depending on corruption.

Communism is something like the top win for the corrupt president. Salary for everybody, but then... reduce it by 10€ for everybody and buy a villa for the boss.... you know what i mean?
By the way, most european states are not capitalism nor socialism nor anything else, but a good mix of everything.

Germany:
Coal mining: Fully subventioned dead branch of economy, living only because of state money = Communism
Wind and Solar energy: Stately planned and executed; put privately organised
Mobile phone communication: Capitalism, but with deliberately reduced amount of players. (what?!?!)
Car manufacturers: Fully export oriented capitalism, but each year with some german rules bent as the manufacturers need it; quite like the americans do.

[Goblin-King]

Again, democracy is not a full system. Democracy is just a way to exchange the top politician without having war each time. Real war. With burning houses and killing people. The rest of the system... can be good or not, work or not; mostly depending on corruption.

Ah... that's what you meant. Yeah, I kinda agree in it not being a full system. Whether a different system would actually lead to war if implemented today... speculation for now.

Communism is something like the top win for the corrupt president. Salary for everybody, but then... reduce it by 10€ for everybody and buy a villa for the boss.... you know what i mean?

Absolutely. Which is also why I don't recognize the examples from history as "true" communism. Communism should never be implemented by one leader. Rules need to be in place to prevent something like that.

By the way, most european states are not capitalism nor socialism nor anything else, but a good mix of everything.

Definitely, but I'd say most states are more of one than the other...

When did this topic become civilized again?
And we are even discussing politics now!

[knightkrawler]

Anderas, we are at war. We've been for years. You don't notice that easily because politicians and econominsts (those waging the war) can't sell it to the people. It's very covert, very focussed and marketed as the fight against terrorism. You can brainwash people into believing anything you want as long as they live in fear. The times for burning houses are over.
It's gonna be water taxes, viruses, microchips, and cameras.