Ye Olde Inn

knightkrawler wrote:The more this assessment of The Trail comes up - cause it does, a lot - the more I think it was written with hero deaths in mind and as such, it has its merits as a starting quest.
The Trials does these things:
- it introduces all types of monsters
- it introduces all types of furniture
- it introduces a specific quest objective
- it introduces problems and death and thus, the solution to death
--> which is, the other players continue until the quest is won or lost, with the players
- being introduced how a quest is won in spite of heroes dying
In the end, the drama - if the quest is won - is not too imposing, as the player of a dead hero starts the next quest with the same hero anew, losing nothing.
There's other things the heroes can learn and practise: stay together or seperate to achieve another goal, with one hero blocking a door, for example.
I am trying to say, it is meant as a starting quest, and death and losing should be taught early on.

Yep, those are all good and valid points, and it was quite deliberately placed first. Personally, I think I would find the latter quests a bit of a let down. I can't say for certain because all my early HQing was done with The Maze. When I got back into HQ with the discovery of the NA version I devised my own set of 'starting' quests.

I just think that in this case, where the entire party has been wiped out, albeit with everyone enjoying themselves, that they might have better fun moving on. Playing the quest again, even with the experience of the first, could well result in party wipe out again. That is only enjoyable for so long.

I'm happy to see that my players' experiences have generated such enthusiastic debate! I should note that my players are mostly veterans of online MMORPGS and the like, and that they took it as a tactical challenge to re-try the quest. I didn't change the difficulty at all but did move some things around, and they were very strategic with doorways and the like. I'm currently thinking about a knockback rule to combat this. I plan to have to defend my rulings at some point, I'm sure.

Playing Prince Magnus' gold, they breezed through the whole quest, so at the end I switched some monsters out for tougher versions. It's always dicey doing so mid-quest and if the tougher monsters had resulted in a TPK I would certainly consider that a letdown! However they didn't have any difficulty with the added challenges so I will keep rubber-banding the difficulty so it is always close.

And hey, I know as a kid my friends and I made it through The Trial on more than one occasion, but I absolutely agree with a lot of your points, Admiral. With less experienced players I would probably leave some monsters out depending on how they're doing towards the end.

I've had a few parties play through and mostly survive the Trial, but I'm planning a long group story campaign where I'll introduce leveling up after about every 5 quests and a rule that the Heroes don't get to keep the Monster Card for a specific monster until they see it for the first time.

So I've pushed The Trial to Quest 5 and have it as a real trial with Verag as the kind of boss and the quest as a kind of culmination of everything the Heroes have encountered up until then. Once they complete it, they are rewarded with their first level up of the game. This also allows monsters to be rolled out a bit at a time over the initial quests, upping the danger level and interest as they go through.

So you get the mystery and buildup that clmckay mentioned.

My quests go:

1. The Rescue of Sir Ragnar
2. Lair of the Orc Warlord
3. Melar's Maze
4. Prince Magnus' Gold
5. The Trial

I've added The Plague of Zombies to the second set of five Quests to make The Gathering Storm 15 Quests long. Race Against Time is number 10 where I first introduce the Evil Wizard Cards and the Heroes level up a second time, and Return to Barak Tor is number 15, ending the initial campaign and letting the Heroes level up a third time after defeating the Witch Lord.

Also, benvoliothefirst, I love the story you're crafting here and your games sound like a lot of fun!

benvoliothefirst wrote:I'm happy to see that my players' experiences have generated such enthusiastic debate! I should note that my players are mostly veterans of online MMORPGS and the like, and that they took it as a tactical challenge to re-try the quest. I didn't change the difficulty at all but did move some things around, and they were very strategic with doorways and the like. I'm currently thinking about a knockback rule to combat this. I plan to have to defend my rulings at some point, I'm sure.

That's what the evil wizard cards are all about - getting less strategic with the doorways. I had my first set printed for testing and laminated them in a cheap machine, so it was always planned to make a second version with printerstudio. Somehow, the first set is still in use.

Finally got a few players together again! We played Quest 5, Melar's Maze, and Quest 6, Legacy of the Orc Warlord. My players have been breezing through the last couple quests so I checked in with them to ask, "Are things too easy?" They of course said no. Melar's Maze started off eventfully as Ryan's wizard stepped on a falling block trap and boldly leapt out of the way, splitting the party up on either side of the collapsed hallway. He had a LONG walk to rejoin the party but managed to defeat the lonely mummy blocking his way with a mighty genie's spell that flung bandages and body parts down the hall. Meanwhile the rest of the party discovered the stone gargoyle in room "B" but thought better of opening the door that would activate him. They circled back around and pit traps proved their efficacy once more as the one in the center hallway proved a constant impediment to heroes attempting to circle back and pinged them for one BP of damage time and again. Due to using the fate roll, the Elf discovered a henchman being tortured on the rack, and the party quickly released him and then continued on in a hurry to find their objective. Another fate roll caused the center room to open and a long parade of undead monsters began the slow trudge towards the heroes' position. Meanwhile the heroes abandoned the newly discovered henchman in the torture room where they found him in their hurry to rescue the wizard, now back in sight, and the poor henchman, already near-dead from the torture, made a flailing attempt to leap the pit trap in the doorway and fell in, before the heroes even had a chance to learn his name. The dwarf succeeded in many attempts to disarm traps and although the gargoyle eventually came to life, the heroes made short work of him. The talisman of lore was found, and the elf gained a mind point.

The next quest didn't go as well for the heroes. I kind of feel like it's a bit cheaty to say that the whole party was captured and jailed without their input, but after having gone several quests without a single player dying, I figured it would at least be a good fight this time around. However, the players seem to have exhausted their supply of luck, as the now equipment- and spell-less heroes took a wrong turn in the first hallway and opened the center room, rather than turning left and re-equipping. The orcs and fimir, having been interrupted in their grisly feast of a corpse laying splayed open on the center table, angrily turned toward the wizard who in a fit of inspiration, passed a mind point test and recalled a few words of orcish: "Sorry, wrong room! Let me grab you guys some more horse meat." The orcs looked at each other and milled about in confusion for a turn until they remembered that they didn't have a manservant. He gingerly closed the door and attempted to jam it shut but failed his body point test and it creaked slowly open in the midst of him attempting to jam the hinges. They heroes scrambled towards the fimir in the hallways below the center room, but with only one AD and 2 defend, their valiant attempts to roadblock the hallways resulted in many lost body points. I grimaced as their luck continued to fail them, and they raced for the southern hallway in the hopes of finding their equipment. The wizard discovered another hallway full of goblins and quickly turned back, but the conga line of orcs still making their way south meant they were running out of options. It was at this point that the party started to despair, and I realized that the same thing was happening as the first quest, but the heroes were much less well-equipped to deal with it. With body points low, the dwarf made a desperate attempt to find the room with their belongings, and the one lowly goblin assigned to defend the room let his courage fail and fled in terror. Donning his helmet and shield wasn't enough to save the dwarf however, and after a valiant last stand he fell to the conga of doom, a prayer to the ancestor gods on his lips. The other heroes fell shortly thereafter, their equipment still piled around the dwarf's cooling corpse.

I made a last-minute decision to allow the spellcasters to remember a last-ditch spell, but it was too late at that point.

I never had a complete party kill. How'd they take it?

It definitely dulled the enthusiasm in the room. The good news is, my next quest will be the heroes finding themselves in the UNDERWORLD, and fighting their way back to their bodies!

Looked like fun... until they lost their weapons.

Take a look at the questbook in my signature if you want to adjust the difficulty exactly.

I hope they come back for another round! That underworld level of yours, I'd be interested seeing that quest.

Okay lads and lasses, here's a rough draft of my plan to dig myself out of this mess. Comments and criticisms are much appreciated.

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Dw'Arf heard voices.

The last thing he remembered was a room full of orcs, him screaming the names of the dwarven gods and dying amidst the corpses of his enemies. 'A suitable end for a dwarf,' he thought. All was darkness, and he couldn't feel his limbs. Or anything else. It should alarm him, but he found himself unable to think clearly.

He was simply... tired.

The voices continued to argue, and it seemed they were escalating in volume. They rang in his ears.

'...He fought a half-dozen uruk to a standstill while his companions lay unconscious in the halls. And he did it UNARMED! He's a credit to his ancestors,' said a gruff and booming voice.
'...But what kind of dwarf ALLOWS himself to be captured, and even worse, DISARMED?!' said another, this one higher in pitch, and more refined. 'He brought shame to the venerable Clan McStuffins.'
A third voice, this one female and yet still audibly dwarven, spoke up. 'He died with our names on his lips and the throats of his enemies in his fists. There can be no more noble end for a dwarf. But the skeins of fate have been severed and I fear the end results. He will be needed in the fight.'
'You would seek to intervene!? It is forbidden!' said the higher voice.
'He has earned his place in the halls of his ancestors. He deserves rest,' grumbled the first.
'Morcar is growing more powerful by the day. I fear that if McStuffins and his companions are removed from the board, we will lose this game,' said the matriarch.
'Our power is limited in this. Are his companions lost as well?'
'Still alive, but barely. I don't know why the warlord kept them jailed but perhaps he means to ransom them.'
'Then McStuffins must rescue them,' the female voice said resolutely. 'We will restore him at the moment of his death. That is all we can do.'
'No,' rumbled the first voice, the sound like a granite grindstone. 'There is one more gift we can give...'

Dw'Arf McStuffins The Fated, opened his eyes. He was staring at the ceiling of the same room where only moments ago he had met his demise, sprawled in a pool of blood, surrounded by the bodies of the orcs he had managed to take with him. But his wounds were miraculously healed, scarred over as if months had passed. He vaguely heard the sound of ringing bells and panicked shouts in the halls but he was alone in the room. He tried to move and found that one arm was heavier than the other. He sat bolt upright.

In his palm was a gleaming hand axe.

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Still debating whether the surprise gift at the end is too much of a boon... I've been stingy with gold in this campaign and with our rotating cast of players all using their own heroes, most are still using their starting short swords. But I kind of feel like the ancestor gods wouldn't reincarnate a fallen dwarf without giving him a better weapon. The hand axe also allows Dw'Arf to dual wield. Thoughts?