BQP: The Frozen Horror Remake Main Thread!

[wallydubbs]

I restarted this for 5 heroes, sent in the Barbarian and Wolf for 4 solo quests (Into the Northlands and the 3 FH solo), to be joined by the Knight, Wizard, Explorer and Rogue for the group quests with my listed suggestions. It's running a lot more smoothly, halfway through Deadly Depths. The only issue is the size of the group. With all the mercenaries the group is bound to split up. Maybe I should limit the heroes to 2 mercenaries per hero.

[MonsterMotor]

Overall this quest book was difficult and not fun at all. Each quest was a chore that took hours to complete.

I fully agree with this.

The extreme difficulty is one aspect, which you can certainly rebalance by strengthening the heroes in various ways, no problem. However, that alone is not sufficient to make this quest series enjoyable and worth playing. There are simply not enough interesting things going on here in relation to the hard, repetitive, and time-consuming work required to slaughter through the hordes of monsters. Especially for groups that have been through some of the easier quest books this is not fun (others should not venture here anyway).

This quest pack needs more substantial improvements. Strangely or maybe not, already the original designers of this expansion delivered all the great game components to accomplish this, but they just didn’t do it!

[Daedalus]

9) "Blind" Trap Jumping mechanic introduced. In the game system rules, jumping traps require that the location of a trap be first discovered by searching (or else known in the case of a visible sprung Pit Trap tile). A proposed rule in the draft stage was that a Hero (or Merc ally) could simply choose to jump a specific square. Only if they failed (rolled a Skull on 1 combat die) and landed on the square they were attempting to Jump would Zargon be required to reveal if there was a trap there, and the consequences. This would give Heroes a chance against "trap on the opposite side of an open door" incidences, especially Stalactite Traps that do instant unblockable damage, and Wandering Monster Traps which are otherwise undetectable. It would be sheer luck and guesswork on the part of the heroes and still has a chance to fail of course. Only downside is that paranoid players could be jumping the square every time, but since they can only jump one square, they will still guess wrongly and fall into some traps most likely or get lazy and caught off guard later. I notice that there are several instances of TWO squares in a row being trapped, not just the one in the doorway so it's as if they designed the quests with this mechanic in mind and forgot that they hadn't actually typed it into the quest book's rule clarification notes!

While a jumping rule remains a might have been for the NA expansons, the draft to the Quest Pack authors from Mike Gray set it as part of the rules questions and answers. Isn't this rather a clarification that has always been available through interpretation?

Once a trap is discovered, you may be able to JUMP the trap, or on your next turn, DISARM it.

Can a Hero jump a space before it is found? Yes.

How can he arrive at this conclusion, when the Instruction Booklet talks about jumping or disarming traps once they are discovered? Hmm . . . we know that it is possible to spring a trap while attempting to discover it, but it isn't possible for a Hero to disarm something that remains undiscovered. Do the same attempting-to-discover/remains undiscovered principles govern jumping? Yes and no. Like suffering damage and ending a turn after unsuccessfully attempting to discover a trap, it is also possible to suffer damage and end a turn after unsuccessfully attempting to jump a trap. However, unlike the impossibility of disarming a trap that is undiscovered and without a location because it isn't there, it remains possible to jump a square located on the gameboard (seen squares needn't be discovered), whether a trap is there this time or not. No rule or physical reason explicitly limits this omnipresent ability of the Heroes to jump on their turn, nor does a lack of trap certitude prevent it. Once a trap is discovered should only be understood to work as a conditional for two choices following its timeframe (JUMP or DISARM). Before that timeframe, one of the activities is already an option. So once a trap is discovered (I found one), a Hero may be able to JUMP the trap [always, even without discovery], or on his next turn DISARM it [only after searching]. Yet a Hero may also merely suspect a trap in any square on the gameboard (I might find one) and JUMP it [without discovering it].

The roll for a jump applies to the Hero's movement, whether or not a trap is actually there to be sprung. While a Hero may continue his move by not rolling a skull--irrespective if a trap actually exists--the same Hero will immediately end his turn if a skull is rolled--irrespective of any damage. This prevents a Hero from simply jumping through an entire Quest, as his movement would then be reduced to just one square about half of his turns! This absurdity would never be tolerated by other players, particularly Zargon. I imagine Mike Gray considered this. What he saw as acceptable were the occasional leaps into rooms to avoid undetectable traps. However, a Hero risks losing his turn if he rolls a skull for jumping a suspected trap (a problem if monsters are present). Similarly, a failed jump over a suspected Wandering Monster trap insures a loss of action after the initial surprise attack. Even a jump into an empty room might forfeit a search action. It seems that the risk and benefit balance out, if not outright favor Zargon.

[Kurgan]

I think I missed the part about your turn ending if you failed the jump (unless there was actually a trap to spring on the square). I just let my heroes keep on moving if the square turned out to be safe, despite the failure. Making them end their turn in this case helps balance out the blind jumping mechanic.


I've got to say I also often get mixed up and forget which is a success or failure with trap jumping when I GM an adventure. For a long time I have played thinking a skull means "success" (I treat a skull as success for a lot of things when I think about it), while here the Skull is meant to be the danger you are avoiding. I guess as long as you state it beforehand (and be consistent throughout the session) and you're just using the regular white combat dice, it doesn't matter so much... still 50/50 chance.

[Daedalus]

Yeah, that kind of stuff is easy to forget. Promoting the jump option is the big message here, and you've been doing that for a while. As a rules lawyer, I felt I had to jump in.

(by the way, I edited my post a bit. Same message, just shored up.)

[LucaRocks]

Always Board Never Boring stated that he will do his next HQ deep dive on Frozen Horror!

I know many of you have already completed it at this point but I personally can't wait! My group will start this expansion in Feb and a deep dive from a pro is just what I need. I'll be sure to post his review here.

[Parzival]

In honor of the local Snowmaggedon ‘26 (Middle Tennessee), I decided to try The Frozen Horror solo vs. the HeroQuest Companion App.

And for the first time ever, I LOST! Granted, it’s a solo quest for the Barbarian, and I started him out with no equipment. But even after finding both a Potion of Warmth and a Potion of Healing, and picking up a, uhm, “helpful” weapon (no spoilers!), I died at the hands of an Ice Gremlin (and an unpainted Ice Gremlin). And this was *after* I used my potions to recover from a Yeti attack. I was trying to make a run for the probable location of the exit door when the gremlin showed up… scratch one over-confident Barbarian— that thing was FAST. It was my mistake to go toe-to-toe with the Yeti rather than try to out run it (though I’m not sure I could have pulled that off anyway.)
Somewhere in the north there’s the frozen corpse of a Barbarian whose last thoughts were of the warm lands down south…

So, I gotta run that one again. But now I’m a bit forewarned, and can avoid some of the denizens (which admittedly isn’t really fair). At this point I guess it’s just a case of seeing what the quest is like before I run it for others.

Sipping my tea and consoling my ego…

(What a great game.)

[wallydubbs]

In honor of the local Snowmaggedon ‘26 (Middle Tennessee), I decided to try The Frozen Horror solo vs. the HeroQuest Companion App.

And for the first time ever, I LOST! Granted, it’s a solo quest for the Barbarian, and I started him out with no equipment. But even after finding both a Potion of Warmth and a Potion of Healing, and picking up a, uhm, “helpful” weapon (no spoilers!), I died at the hands of an Ice Gremlin (and an unpainted Ice Gremlin). And this was *after* I used my potions to recover from a Yeti attack. I was trying to make a run for the probable location of the exit door when the gremlin showed up… scratch one over-confident Barbarian— that thing was FAST. It was my mistake to go toe-to-toe with the Yeti rather than try to out run it (though I’m not sure I could have pulled that off anyway.)
Somewhere in the north there’s the frozen corpse of a Barbarian whose last thoughts were of the warm lands down south…

So, I gotta run that one again. But now I’m a bit forewarned, and can avoid some of the denizens (which admittedly isn’t really fair). At this point I guess it’s just a case of seeing what the quest is like before I run it for others.

Sipping my tea and consoling my ego…

(What a great game.)

Yeah Frozen Horror is broken due to the fact that it was never playtested twice. It was rushed out back in 1992 to make room for the merge between Parker Brothers & Milton Bradley.
In the 2nd iteration of the game they never bothered to listen to the fan base that something was inherently wrong with Frozen Horror, so they just remade it with no effort to fix it.

Look at Wizards of Morcar and compare that to the original, they definitely fixed it up to the point where it's easy enough that you don't even need Mercenaries.

[Parzival]

In honor of the local Snowmaggedon ‘26 (Middle Tennessee), I decided to try The Frozen Horror solo vs. the HeroQuest Companion App.

And for the first time ever, I LOST! Granted, it’s a solo quest for the Barbarian, and I started him out with no equipment. But even after finding both a Potion of Warmth and a Potion of Healing, and picking up a, uhm, “helpful” weapon (no spoilers!), I died at the hands of an Ice Gremlin (and an unpainted Ice Gremlin). And this was *after* I used my potions to recover from a Yeti attack. I was trying to make a run for the probable location of the exit door when the gremlin showed up… scratch one over-confident Barbarian— that thing was FAST. It was my mistake to go toe-to-toe with the Yeti rather than try to out run it (though I’m not sure I could have pulled that off anyway.)
Somewhere in the north there’s the frozen corpse of a Barbarian whose last thoughts were of the warm lands down south…

So, I gotta run that one again. But now I’m a bit forewarned, and can avoid some of the denizens (which admittedly isn’t really fair). At this point I guess it’s just a case of seeing what the quest is like before I run it for others.

Sipping my tea and consoling my ego…

(What a great game.)

Yeah Frozen Horror is broken due to the fact that it was never playtested twice. It was rushed out back in 1992 to make room for the merge between Parker Brothers & Milton Bradley.
In the 2nd iteration of the game they never bothered to listen to the fan base that something was inherently wrong with Frozen Horror, so they just remade it with no effort to fix it.

Look at Wizards of Morcar and compare that to the original, they definitely fixed it up to the point where it's easy enough that you don't even need Mercenaries.

Don’t get me wrong— I appreciated the tough fight (the App is usually a cakewalk opponent), and I did find tactics that work well. So I’m not convinced that it’s broken. I played the second quest, and managed to survive right up to the BBEG, where my dice failed me. (*This* close to winning out…)

But both quests are shy of some healing options, and two of the new monsters are very deadly in melee— you have to step away from the Barbarian’s presentation as a melee tank and embrace range weaponry and running away like blue blazes (shoot, run, shoot, run, and hope your dice are hot on at least one of the two). And the icicle “traps” inside doorways which you can’t search for or avoid when triggered… those suck. I would eliminate those or put in an avoidance/defense roll mechanic, and put at least one healing potion somewhere along the way. Otherwise, a tough fight is a good thing.

[Onan]

I feel your pain, Parzival. The solo quests feel like Fighting Fantasy game books: There is only one path that gives you a chance to survive. I even made an estimation of survival chances on the best path based on rough probabilities. My result was about 5% chance to survive! But then I watched the "Always Board never Boring" playthrough and learned 2 things:

1) Wandering Monster traps don't end your turn. The monsters attack, and you may strike back, eliminating one of them before they get to attack again. This increases surviving chances a lot, because there are lots of unavoidable wandering monster traps.

2) Don't drink your healing potions when you're down to 4BP, only drink them when you're killed. This way you get back more BP in average. It is an american expansion, play it the american way.

We played through the complete campaign once, and there are lots of dead barbarians under the ice now. Most of the missions I completed with Pass Through Rock or Veil of Mist, and the caster was the only one to get through (because Zargon allowed some minor cheating and didn't always attack with all tactical possibilities, else she would have been able to kill the party in every single mission). The missions take about 2hours each and the mission is always to find the wooden exit door. Sometimes a special character is mentioned, but not related to your eternal goal of reaching the wooden exit door. Sometimes we replay a mission or 2 and give all monsters 1BP, but most of the time we just use the miniatures for own quests.

I have even written a campaign using the material, which is quite good I think (the material, but my campaign, too ). It is for fresh heroes playing euro style, and it has the relaxed athmospere of the base quests.

And yes, the icicle traps are annoying, I handle them like spear traps with only 50% chance of hitting.

Good luck for your quests in the north, Parzival! Keep posting how you progress.