The Stephen Baker Interview Oct/1989

[Daedalus]

Found another interview from Games International #9 way back in September 1989 when Hero Quest was first released in the UK:

THE GI INTERVIEW



In this month's interview, we talk to Steven Baker, designer of HeroQuest



The big question: how did HeroQuest evolve?

'I was always interested in the fantasy genre from my days at Games Workshop. When I went to work for MB I discussed this with Roger Ford (head of Project Development at MB) and he game me the go-ahead to develop the project with the proviso that it be kept simple enough to appeal to a large audience.

How did Games Workshop get involved?

'Initially we just wanted them to do the plastic miniatures, but they've had so much experience in the fantasy field we decided to draw on their expertise.'

Were they involved in the actual design of the game?

'No. Their input in the basic version was the artwork and the manufacture of the miniatures, though in the future that will change.'

In what way?

'They will be producing Advanced HeroQuest which adds complexity to the basic concept so will therefore have more appeal to their core market. For our part we will be publishing new scenarios to go with the original HeroQuest.'

Our reviewer mentioned that he found it a tad unbalanced if the players co-operate.

'That's fair comment, in fact I designed it that way. The game is really aimed at 10-12 year olds who play with their mums and dads. My feeling is that they play in a very competitive, rather than co-operative way, so they wouldn't experience the problems your games group did.'

What do you think of the changes we proposed (see page 17)?

'They're excellent. This is what we want to encourage. The game system was kept flexible enough so that it could incorporate all sorts of amendments. We could have added a whole pile of optional rules but we didn't want to confuse people by producing a 32 page rule book. Games Workshop can do that, indeed their fans probably expect nothing less. I grew up playing SPI and Avalon Hill games so beefy rule books don't faze me, however, working for a company like MB means that you have to aim for the mass market. If we sell to the games hobby that's a bonus.'

The fantasy theme, though, isn't that a quantum leap for a company like MB with its family image?

'Undoubtedly, but we felt there was a gap in the market for a simple, well produced, fantasy game. Most games in this field are quite the opposite. Huge rulebooks and poor components. Nobody's fault, small companies simply don't have the resources to produce high quality components.'

On a personal note what games do you play yourself?

'I've always been a big fan of Napoleonics. Avalon Hill's Napoleon is a game I find myself constantly returning to, though right now I've been playing with miniatures quite a lot'.

Back to HeroQuest. Are we likely to see more games of this scale from MB?

'This, of course depends on its success, which I must say, at the moment looks very promising. Right now I'm working on a science-fiction game which will probably be the second game in what we hope will be a continuing series'.

And so do we.

Interview by Brian Walker //////////GI

[Pancho]

Baker was/is a fan of Napoleonics! He just went up in my estimation even more

[cornixt]

How did Games Workshop get involved?
'Initially we just wanted them to do the plastic miniatures, but they've had so much experience in the fantasy field we decided to draw on their expertise.'

Were they involved in the actual design of the game?
'No. Their input in the basic version was the artwork and the manufacture of the miniatures,

This seems like almost a contradiction between the two, surely "their expertise" doesn't just mean artwork here. Combined with one of the GW crew claiming to have completely rewritten the rules from what Baker gave them to test out, I'm wondering if he let too much slip in the first question and pulled it so far back as to ruleout them having any input in the rules at all. I would have thought that the playtest feedback deserved a mention even if he took no notice of it. Purely speculation though, it just jumped out as being not as straight forward as his usual claim to have designed it all.

Funny to see how their suggested body point changes on page 17 made it into the US edition of the game.

[Kurgan]

Great stuff. Thanks for posting! I love hearing this history and some of the philosophy behind the classic designs.

[Pancho]

How did Games Workshop get involved?
'Initially we just wanted them to do the plastic miniatures, but they've had so much experience in the fantasy field we decided to draw on their expertise.'

Were they involved in the actual design of the game?
'No. Their input in the basic version was the artwork and the manufacture of the miniatures,

This seems like almost a contradiction between the two, surely "their expertise" doesn't just mean artwork here. Combined with one of the GW crew claiming to have completely rewritten the rules from what Baker gave them to test out, I'm wondering if he let too much slip in the first question and pulled it so far back as to ruleout them having any input in the rules at all. I would have thought that the playtest feedback deserved a mention even if he took no notice of it. Purely speculation though, it just jumped out as being not as straight forward as his usual claim to have designed it all.

Funny to see how their suggested body point changes on page 17 made it into the US edition of the game.

Yeah I thought that too. Seems pretty clear that GW had more involvement than just the artwork and figures, given that the entire setting is based around the idea of the Empire versus the realm of Chaos.

[Daedalus]

How did Games Workshop get involved?
'Initially we just wanted them to do the plastic miniatures, but they've had so much experience in the fantasy field we decided to draw on their expertise.'

Were they involved in the actual design of the game?
'No. Their input in the basic version was the artwork and the manufacture of the miniatures,

This seems like almost a contradiction between the two, surely "their expertise" doesn't just mean artwork here. Combined with one of the GW crew claiming to have completely rewritten the rules from what Baker gave them to test out, I'm wondering if he let too much slip in the first question and pulled it so far back as to ruleout them having any input in the rules at all. I would have thought that the playtest feedback deserved a mention even if he took no notice of it. Purely speculation though, it just jumped out as being not as straight forward as his usual claim to have designed it all.. . .

GW certainly contributed more than just artwork and miniatures. The Empire, Chaos (with a capital 'c'), the World's Edge Mountains, and perhaps even Morcar and Atheloren are all derived from the Old World of Warhammer. Baker's denial feels like it has GW/Hasbro NDA written all over it.

Oh yes . . . and then there's the little thing of the Hero Quest trademark being applied for by GW in '89 and awarded to them in '90.

. . . Back to HeroQuest. Are we likely to see more games of this scale from MB?

'This, of course depends on its success, which I must say, at the moment looks very promising. Right now I'm working on a science-fiction game which will probably be the second game in what we hope will be a continuing series'.

And so do we.

Battle Masters was the third offering, of course.

[Kurgan]

I respect Stephen Baker and we all do for the great game(s). He seems like a genuinely nice guy and loves what he does. But when he said "Dread Warriors" I figured he's contractually obligated to be careful with what he says, even if the work is already done.

Mr. Baker, if you're reading this, in the next interview, simply blink twice for yes, three times for no.

Seriously though, no disrespect to him, but I know how these things sometimes go and can't really blame him.

The Heroquest trademark has jumped around before. Who knows where it will be in another 30 years... though I'll probably look like Mentor for real by then (or Zargon, depending upon your POV).

I didn't remember this from history class, but apparently Morcar was a historical figure. No kidding. (the closest we get to his NA counterpart name is of course Sargon, but the name Zargon has been used in several bits of game lore in that period).

[Davane]

I didn't remember this from history class, but apparently Morcar was a historical figure. No kidding. (the closest we get to his NA counterpart name is of course Sargon, but the name Zargon has been used in several bits of game lore in that period).

You should note that the GW design team from the time of HQ were all history buffs and classical/medieval wargamers. Obscure facts like this would have been bread and butter for them in anything they design, so it's probably not a coincidence if the Evil Wizard was named Morcar after this guy...

Especially if it was based on the history of Nottingham (where the GW studio was at the time), at which point I think THIS phrase from the Wikipedia entry becomes interesting:

Marching southwards with the rebels, Morcar gathered into his forces the men of Nottingham, Derby, and Lincoln, members of the old Danish confederacy of towns, and met Ēadwine, who was at the head of a considerable force at Northampton.

I'd have no doubt that the GW team would have recreated this struggle on the tabletop at some point...