Hero Collection II: Rogue Heir of Elethorn (Oct-Dec '22)

[HispaZargon]

Here are some pictures:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/heroque ... 746903367/

[Kurgan]

Excellent reporting HispaZargon, domymontalto! Mysteries revealed at last.

For those without FB access... (thanks to Aussie fans BH and DS for posting! I gotta remind myself FB uses full real names, so not trying to step on any privacy toes with that) a whole two months early:

[Kurgan]

I read the above as the character actually does start with the Bandolier (which is neither armor nor a weapon, but is equipment, akin to a toolkit, so COULD be stolen by Ice Gremlins... and as Liorlec humorously reminded me this morning, Cold Iron Plate isn't an option for him since it's METAL!).

I'm reading "metal armor" as "body armor" (Chainmail, Plate mail... and special variants like Borin's Armor, Cold Iron Plate, and the inevitable Elven Chainmail).

More from the same source... again credit for the ones who posted this before me!

The price is in Aussie dollars then.

[wallydubbs]

HeroQuest is still a blank slate more or less, but you still get a little suggestion of a backstory for the Barbarian in the Frozen Horror, just as you do for the Elf in Mage of the Mirror (and I'd expect the same of the Dwarf and Wizard in those eventual packs if interest in HQ continues to seem profitable for Hasbro!).

Technically Mage of the Mirror gives no info to the Elf's back story. Frozen Horror may tell us where the Barbarian is from and the conditions he grew up in but it doesn't go into specifics about his character. The Elf, in his subsequent quest pack, just happens to be the elf picked for the job. The story of Mage of the Mirror is more about the civil war in the Elven Kingdom then anything to do with our hero.

Like those hype videos put out by Avalon Hill. I know people worry about "canon" in franchises, but still, you can be whatever you want. There's nothing that says your Barbarian really is named Sigmar and looks exactly like the cover art or talks like he does in the novel (actually there are two different Barbarians in the Dave Morris novels, compare Tyrant's Tomb to Fellowship of Four, just as you would the Wizard in the latter book vs. the one in Screaming Spectre).

I understand that not even the Hero Quest novels are considered canon. What we know as canon can only be taken from the game system and it's subsequent expansions, but even some of the newer quest packs are convoluted in regards to that. The Spirit Queen's Torment does not fit in concise story-telling the way the original expansions do. So much so, I have difficulty calling this 'canon'.

The bonus heroes once again have so little direction given for them, I think that's a good thing. Some people might want them to have a quest pack specifically designed with them in mind (but that's up to YOU to do if you want). Instead only the Bard had any minimal amount of instruction as to his use (inexplicably being a backup to the first hero to get offed in a Mythic exclusive book, unless he was already in play).

The Bard doesn't even come into play in the Spirit Queen's Torment, as at least two or 3 times the heroes find themselves working with a spy among the Orcs. None of them are presented to be a Bard.

Actually that's another way to do it. Most quests assume you have four heroes. So the Barbarian dies and nobody can save him, guess what happens in the next quest? Guess what, another Barbarian showed up...

I will admit the three brand new heroes we got in the Mythic box (other than the Druid perhaps) all seemed trying hard to be unique, rather than iconic (the four classic heroes seem very iconic without being as stereotypical as they could have been...). When I think "Bard" I don't think of an Orc dressed like a pirate. When I hear "Warlock" I don't think of a three eyed half-ling demoniac. A druid, maybe somebody wearing leaves with a staff isn't too far fetched. The knight looks more like a barbarian with armor or a mercenary to me, but whatever. The Rogue I guess looks pretty rogue-like but I tend to think of them as being human probably either dressed like a ninja, a pirate, or with one of those hooded cloaks.

That's actually the one part I could kinda agree on. If a hero dies, it doesn't have to be the same generic version of that hero taking over. In the Frozen Horror, where the female Barbarian is introduced we have someone from the Barbarian's youth taking over, as she's a great warrior too, perhaps a sister or childhood friend of the original Barbarian prepared to defend the Northlands.
In Mage of the Mirror we have a female (or a new male elf in the new version) stepping up to aid Terrellia's side in the civil war... Perhaps Millandrial's personal guardian?
A story can already be written by what little factoids we're granted.
When it comes to the Orc Bard, we can take what we know of orcs and go from there: Orcs are very warlike and don't care for the Empire. So one of two stories emerge for the Bard: either he was ostracized by his orcish brethren for being too gay; or he was found as a child and raised by a fencing instructor.
I can't really imagine Orcs having a beautiful voice, but it doesn't really say anywhere that they don't... So there's some non-generic creativity there. And really, what the hell is up with that rapier? This is a hack-n-slash era. Swing that rapier against a Broadsword and it'll snap right off! This character just doesn't work in my mind.
The Druid, I guess I can give a pass on as it seems they would exist in this timeframe.
But then there's the Warlock... A demonic possessed halfling!? Who's gonna trust her to be on their team... And why? Maybe there's some binding spell that keeps the demon from overtaking the halfling and the halfling finally has power to fight back (which her people probably don't do much of). So if you're trying to write this character's story, you gotta throw in the demon... Though I'd sooner be looking for an exorcist...

Finally we come to the Rogue Heir of Elkhorn. Nobody knows where Elthorn is and I don't expect a map or quest pack to accompany the characters. But here we have an Elven Prince or Princess who doesn't want to claim his birthright. Is he related to Millandrial or is this a different elf kingdom? It would sure make some interesting speculation if he showed up while Dinestra was trying to take the throne only for him to say, "My claim is stronger then Millandrial's. Let me have a go.

[Kurgan]

A lot of good points, but please double check your quote paragraphs above (some of that stuff was you responding to me but it looks like a quote). Fair enough about the dearth of "personal backstory" for the Elf in his/her own pack.

I think when it comes to games, "canon" is extremely loose. I'm not one of those people who gets really caught up on the precise order the expansion packs are "intended" to be played lore wise (most of them are so generic they could go anywhere... scaling up the difficulty is way more important to me, and obviously the Game System comes first, but new heroes can join along the way).

It's like Star Wars players worrying about just how many Stormtroopers Luke Skywalker killed in that video game, or whether he shot some civilians by mistake there. Yes, when you're playing a game of HeroQuest, and it's the same people playing, they will tend to bring their gear and character name from quest to quest and kind of maybe get attached to them. But if all of a sudden in the midst of your lives you want to play another quest book and maybe have base level heroes again, what's the harm? Is that "lore breaking," game ruining or just something that can be easily done, like hitting "reset" on your video game or using a cheat code to skip to the level you really wanted to play this session?

So I take the fact that we get different portrayals of the Heroes with different names by the same author (the HeroQuest novels, I don't care what anyone says, to me were just as official as any of the other material out there, whether it be the White Dwarf articles, the sticker album or the Winter Special marvel comic).

If people are wonder "what is canon" for the Remake, then I guess by that you mean "what is in the minds of the creators as far as this new game goes" but really... I mean... who cares? Because you may own the Guardian Knights and love their story, but somebody else doesn't even have it, do they have to somehow acknowledge that in their story? Not at all. If they want to play Frozen Horror after the Game System, that's their right. Maybe they don't have Return of the Witch Lord or even Kellar's Keep. It's not like there is some police force that is going to stop them and say "Halt this gaming session, you must first play this other thing!"

What if someone plays the Barbarian as this guy who likes to hang back and the Wizard like a guy who charges into battle. Or maybe they just want to play as the Dwarf and the Druid and no other heroes through any adventures. Is someone going to be able to tell them "that's wrong"? It's mere preference and opinion. So "canon" is the most loose thing in the world when it comes to these things.

Maybe I buy HeroQuest and don't even care about any of the written quests, and the blank map is where I start and I never stop making my own stuff. Is that wrong too? Apparently not. I like that flexibility with the product. So while I don't want any of the official packs to "suck" at the same time I'm not too concerned if there are contradictions between the "lore" of different packs. I can just not buy the ones I don't like, or change it after the fact (NOTE: I don't want them to suck either, so that doesn't mean I don't care at all about quality because I as a fan can "fix it myself" later... most people will try to play it as written and base their decision to buy on the quality of the pre-made stuff since not everyone wants to create their own adventures or rules).

Spirit Queen's Torment takes a similar tact to Warcraft, in my view. Imagine the Orcs as being an ancient civilization that was at some point in time almost wholly corrupted to Zargon's will. As his power is failing (perhaps) you have various Orcs that have defected. Most of the Orcs you find that aren't evil are ghosts (spoilers). Agreed that the Bard doesn't figure into any of that. He just magically (?) takes over when the first hero dies in that pack, or you can play as him from the beginning to take the place of one of the classic four. But the other heroes are given no such guidance, other than presumably you're always playing with four heroes (and only one of each "character type"), no matter who you pick. But I mean I've played several quests now with two guardian knights instead of only one. But I imagine if we get an official "Knight Quest Pack" it will say, just like the Elf and Barbarian packs before it that "only one" Knight hero is intended to be used in a party at a time. The game police can't stop you if you decide otherwise of course!

And not to get all shadiversity on ya, but a Rapier probably shouldn't be thought of as a little fencing foil (vs. the "Broadsword" that is more like a Roman gladius with a fancy handle) but one of those bigger longer swords that would in no way "snap in half" if it clashed with a thicker blade. When I played with the Bard I changed him to a "Pirate" (still an Orc) and renamed his Rapier a Cutlass. As it goes, the cutlass was supposed to be a shorter version of a rapier due to being intended for close quarter fighting onboard ships... and yet I still retain the "diagonal attack" picturing someone lunching forward for a stab like an olympic fencing champion. But whatever you call it, saber, rapier, epee, it's really a fantasy sword that connects to the conventions of the board game mechanic.

As for what makes sense in the setting, that's up to you. The original "loosely based upon" Warhammer Fantasy 3rd edition setting that gave us '89 heroquest and its first expansions also gave us Battlemasters that features an American Civil War looking cannon against mounted knights with lances on both sides (and yet, not a single one of them is carrying firearms!). So historical realism is kind of out the window in favor of a certain aesthetic and "rule of cool." Warhammer has always been a mish mash of fantasy tropes and quasi historical legendary stuff because it started as a fantasy wargame using a vast fantasy backcatalog of miniatures (which could have just been to paint and display) to become what it is today. Whimsical fantasy characters paired with every style of army you can imagine from greco-roman mythology to medieval legend with plenty of anachronistic and fantasy stuff sprinkled in. If it was part of someone's "cool" ancient army setup, they found a way to fit it in. So Dwarfs running around with rifles might be in your battle or they might not. Like many other things they wanted to remind people of other things that were liked to provide as much variety as they could to get people to buy and assemble their armies, and HeroQuest harvested from that pile of pre-existing art much like Space Crusade (and Space Hulk before it) did with Rogue Trader (the original WH40K (which is obviously drawn from a ton of earlier sci-fi and plenty "futuristic" quasi-parodies of the Warhammer fantasy stuff at the beginning). I'm not a lore expert on this stuff, but I see that if you say it's silly now, then it's always been silly, but I can still suspend disbelief.

If you want Orcs to only be evil, that's easy to do. If you want them to be sometimes good guys (or always good guys) you can do that easily enough as well. Within the lore this is based upon that can happen. Even in Tolkien's work published in his lifetime there were Orcs who would have gone rogue if given the chance (that doesn't make them heroic per se). And this isn't LOTR (unless you want it to be) so you're not beholden to that view of Orcs anymore than you are to Warcraft's Orcs or whatever other version. If Hasbro continues to develop the lore we may start to see their own version of these creatures emerge (see again Spirit Queen's torment that gave us a taste). And to those who don't like it, they can ignore them easily enough, because these are still expansions not the core game. If they take risks with the lore and sales are poor, they may change direction or call it a "what if" scenario and try again the next time. I'm okay if it all feels generic and episodic really.

Zargon's troops don't have guns in this incarnation of the board game.... yet. But did real life Knights at times in history actually carry guns alongside their other weapons? Yes. And did their armor provide decent protection against those same weapons (but not in some "no limits" fallacy way)? The answer is again yes.


So back to the Rogue Heir. You can use this guy or not. If you want to say he and his twin sister are fighting for the throne (or it's a Princess not a Prince) or he's just a generic NPC or mercenary or whatever, that's cool too. The instructions are pretty generic so they're not imposing anything on us like you have to buy this, like it and incorporate that lore into your main game. It seems the strategy thus far is to ruffle as few feathers of HeroQuest players as possible, to keep things open-ended, flexible, and mostly just make suggestions to inspire people and the changes have mostly just been to keep out of any legal entanglements.

[Kurgan]

Bigbadtoystore is now accepting pre orders for the Mage in the Mirror expansion (thanks Colin C and Jason S for the info!)

From HeroQuestFans discord!

[Kurgan]

Latest update, thanks Elvyler!

[FainFlynn]

I could be wrong, but BBTS shows Rogue Heir in stock. Even though I ordered from Amazon, I just ordered one to get it ASAP. I will update if it shows shipped soon.

[Kurgan]

Thanks for the tip FF!

Edit: I placed my order with BigBadToyStore ($16.99 plus $4 shipping) yesterday afternoon and today it has officially shipped (as of this afternoon) and the ETA is Tuesday Oct 11th "by 9pm."

So if you are looking for a confirmed fast delivery, check there (as of now they are in stock).

Edit: I have it in hand now of course. No real surprises, the presentation quality of the box looks slightly more elaborate than the Knight, but the actual components ("lore" letter, figures and cards) are as expected.

[wallydubbs]

My theorization was correct, the Rogue is indeed Terrellia's son/daughter. Something else we can add to Hero Quest lore!