Hero Quest 2021 Remake: Errata Compilation

[HispaZargon]

I will open a delicate and probably already discussed point in other historic thread... but I see quite clear this point is an errata in Frozen Horror expansion, not mentioned yet on this thread, surprisingly.

- The Frozen Horror Quest Book, page 36: A note below the Mercenaries stats chart says the Crossbowman uses a broadsword to attack adjacent enemies. I know this afirmation is also writen in the classic Frozen Horror quest book from the 90s, but in my humble opinion this text is wrong. The correct text should say that the Crossbowman attacks with a shortsword to adjacent enemies, instead of a broadsword. I have also checked that the Crossbowmen in the App also attack always with 3 dice.

Here are my reasons: If a Crossbowman Mercenary were equiped as said in the Frozen Horror quest book, according to the Armory rules they may attack with 3 combat dice in any situation, including adjacently (with the broadsword), distantly (with the crossbow) and diagonally (with the crossbow again since nothing says the opposite in the Armory for diagonal attacks using a crossbow). However, a Halberdier Mercenary, who has the same stats of a Crossbowman and also same hiring cost (75 gold coins) cannot attack to distant enemies, he may only attack adjacently or diagonally. Therefore... Why both types of Mercenaries may be hired by the same gold price if one of them, the Crossbowman, has clear better capabilities than the Halberdier? For me it has no sense, the ranged attacks rare ability of the Crossbowman should have a penalization in other field compared with the Halberdier, which I think is the adjacent regular attacks, which should be reduced to 2 combat dice instead of 3. That's the reason I think the Crossbowman should wield a shortsword for adjacent attacks. Moreover, I think it also have more sense thematically (I see difficult to imagine a men-at-arms carrying a crossbow and a big sword to combat...).

[manaknight14]

I will open a delicate and probably already discussed point in other historic thread... but I see quite clear this point is an errata in Frozen Horror expansion, not mentioned yet on this thread, surprisingly.

- The Frozen Horror Quest Book, page 36: A note below the Mercenaries stats chart says the Crossbowman uses a broadsword to attack adjacent enemies. I know this afirmation is also writen in the classic Frozen Horror quest book from the 90s, but in my humble opinion this text is wrong. The correct text should say that the Crossbowman attacks with a shortsword to adjacent enemies, instead of a broadsword.

Here are my reasons: If a Crossbowman Mercenary were equiped as said in the Frozen Horror quest book, according to the Armory rules they may attack with 3 combat dice in any situation, including adjacently (with the broadsword), distantly (with the crossbow) and diagonally (with the crossbow again since nothing says the opposite in the Armory for diagonal attacks using a crossbow). However, a Halberdier Mercenary, who has the same stats of a Crossbowman and also same hiring cost (75 gold coins) cannot attack to distant enemies, he may only attack adjacently or diagonally. Therefore... Why both types of Mercenaries may be hired by the same gold price if one of them, the Crossbowman, has clear better capabilities than the Halberdier? For me it has no sense, the ranged attacks rare ability of the Crossbowman should have a penalization in other field compared with the Halberdier, which I think is the adjacent regular attacks, which should be reduced to 2 combat dice instead of 3. That's the reason I think the Crossbowman should wield a shortsword for adjacent attacks. Moreover, I think it also have more sense thematically (I see difficult to imagine a men-at-arms carrying a crossbow and a big sword to combat...).

I considered this too, and tried to reason why the crossbowman and halberdier would have the same price when there is nothing the halberdier can do that the crossbowman can't (when wielding a broadsword as the RAW state). There is one tiny disadvantage to the crossbowman, and that is that he must switch weapons. Even assuming you don't have any restrictions about when someone can or can't switch weapons, whichever weapon isn't currently in the crossbowman's hand is open to being pilfered by an ice gremlin, which could greatly reduce his utility. Is this vulnerability enough to outweigh the value of his ranged attack over the halberdier? Probably not, but it is at least something.

[HispaZargon]

Another point for discussion if it is an errata or not... let's see:

The Game System rulebook does not explain anywhere how many combat dice mayroll a unarmed Hero nor if rolling Skulls still damaged an enemy without using a weapon, but in my opinion, a rule to cover such situation should had been written there. I know that the rulebook is not intended to cover all possible situations, in fact the rulebook says that any rare situation should be solved by Zargon player, etc. Ok, but... what happen with a new Wizard who throw his single dagger in the first mission? Yes, the Wizard will automatically become an unarmed Hero.

Well, don't know what you think, but I see this situation really probable, which could happen very early in a game, especially playing with kids, so I see it could be enough to justify that dedicated rules for such situation should had been included in the rulebook.

I will not open here the debate of how to homebrew this, there are already other forum threads for such discussion, I am just declaring that in my opinion, there is a clear lack of rules in the rulebook about how unarmed heroes should combat.

[cynthialee]

Another point for discussion if it is an errata or not... let's see:

The Game System rulebook does not explain anywhere how many combat dice mayroll a unarmed Hero nor if rolling Skulls still damaged an enemy without using a weapon, but in my opinion, a rule to cover such situation should had been written there. I know that the rulebook is not intended to cover all possible situations, in fact the rulebook says that any rare situation should be solved by Zargon player, etc. Ok, but... what happen with a new Wizard who throw his single dagger in the first mission? Yes, the Wizard will automatically become an unarmed Hero.

Well, don't know what you think, but I see this situation really probable, which could happen very early in a game, especially playing with kids, so I see it could be enough to justify that dedicated rules for such situation should had been included in the rulebook.

I will not open here the debate of how to homebrew this, there are already other forum threads for such discussion, I am just declaring that in my opinion, there is a clear lack of rules in the rulebook about how unarmed heroes should combat.

I can't remember off the top of my head which quest, but there is one in the main quest book where the heroes start with no gear. Attacks unarmed are made with 1 Dice, skulls are hits.

[lucapaschi]

Another point for discussion if it is an errata or not... let's see:

The Game System rulebook does not explain anywhere how many combat dice mayroll a unarmed Hero nor if rolling Skulls still damaged an enemy without using a weapon, but in my opinion, a rule to cover such situation should had been written there. I know that the rulebook is not intended to cover all possible situations, in fact the rulebook says that any rare situation should be solved by Zargon player, etc. Ok, but... what happen with a new Wizard who throw his single dagger in the first mission? Yes, the Wizard will automatically become an unarmed Hero.

Well, don't know what you think, but I see this situation really probable, which could happen very early in a game, especially playing with kids, so I see it could be enough to justify that dedicated rules for such situation should had been included in the rulebook.

I will not open here the debate of how to homebrew this, there are already other forum threads for such discussion, I am just declaring that in my opinion, there is a clear lack of rules in the rulebook about how unarmed heroes should combat.

Pretty funny as my brother today wondered the same thing while playtesting a solo quest from the Wizard Pack. I went back to the rulebook, but couldn't find anything. I guess a Wizard could still serve a knuckle sandwich to the monters, but yeah, since he just has a 1-die attack WITH the dagger, it's strange to believe he would do the same damage with his bare hands.

[HispaZargon]

I can't remember off the top of my head which quest, but there is one in the main quest book where the heroes start with no gear. Attacks unarmed are made with 1 Dice, skulls are hits.

Yeah, I knew it... but as lucapaschi said above, it is difficult to believe the rule of that quest if you compare it with the dagger rules. I can believe the Barbarian as Skull = 1 hit due to his muscles, but for the rest, I would homebrew it for more realism. Maybe for the Dwarf and Elf it should be White Shield = 1 hit, and for the Wizard should be Black Shield = 1 hit. Nevertheless, I think this is not the correct thread to discuss it, however I see quite clear there is a lack in the rules about that.

[Kurgan]

Re: "unarmed combat," Legacy of the Orc Warlord (Game System, Quest 6) covered this. It is handled differently in the EU vs. the NA editions. Heroes who don't have a weapon fight with one combat die and can attack adjacent enemies, the same as with a dagger in the hand (the dagger as a distinct item didn't exist in the other editions, only the NA).

I would not count this as an errata since everyone who bought the game system also had access to the same set of cards and the quest book with everything in it. Now if they didn't play that quest yet and leaped right into an expansion they might be a bit confused about what to do if the info isn't repeated, but that isn't the fault of the original game designers, is it?

[CavemanLogic]

I can't remember off the top of my head which quest, but there is one in the main quest book where the heroes start with no gear. Attacks unarmed are made with 1 Dice, skulls are hits.

Yeah, I knew it... but as lucapaschi said above, it is difficult to believe the rule of that quest if you compare it with the dagger rules. I can believe the Barbarian as Skull = 1 hit due to his muscles, but for the rest, I would homebrew it for more realism. Maybe for the Dwarf and Elf it should be White Shield = 1 hit, and for the Wizard should be Black Shield = 1 hit. Nevertheless, I think this is not the correct thread to discuss it, however I see quite clear there is a lack in the rules about that.

Yes, Quest 6 gives us the "official" stats for Unarmed Combat: 1CD for attacks, and 2CD for defense. But it always irked me a little that a fist and a dagger did the same amount of damage. In reality, a dagger can generally do way more damage more easily. Personally, I use a variant of your "descending scale of effectiveness based on probable Hero strengths" of Heroes scoring a hit on a scale from Skulls, to White Shields, to Black Shields, depending on how "strong" they are.

The Barbarian is a strong fighter, so I allow him to hit on Skull results (50% success rate), or the same as the official rules. The Dwarf and Elf are a step down from that, and hit on White Shields (33.3%). The Wizard channels his innate arcane abilities which allows him to pick the best die out of two, but his weak physique has him hit only on Black Shields (30.56%). All unarmed Heroes have a Defend Strength of two Combat Dice, successfully defending on White Shield results (as usual).

This method doesn't butcher the official Unarmed Combat rules (too much), while giving us a more preferred (by some people anyway) tiered approach to it, and also not completely neutering the Wizard's Unarmed Combat ability by otherwise giving him only Black Shield successes (16.67% success rate).

[Kurgan]

A black shield for hitting to me is just a bit too weak, that's the kind of thing you reserve for crazy traps and such (my personal opinion) but I understand the desire to make the Barbarian stronger than the wizard when it comes to fisticuffs. The Wizard may spend a lot of time with no weapon, so that will just encourage him to keep his distance from any fighting all the more...

Our rationale as kids was that the Dwarf and Barbarian were big lugs who were strong, while the Elf and Wizard had martial arts skills for fighting barehanded, making them equivalent. The dagger is no joke but the real utility of it was as a missile weapon (one time yes, but it was cheap, you could buy a bunch of them). We grew up with the NA edition so the idea of "inherent strength" that varied by character wasn't on our radar.

Many have suggested other things, but the unarmed combat thing isn't really an error just as a "it's harder to find the answer than it could have been." It's just explained in an early quest rather than in the Rulebook. Some would say this is an inconvenience, much like The Frozen Horror explaining the tiles at the start of the book and making you reference back to them whenever a tile appears (or referring to an earlier quest to know how that tile behaves! more page flipping than necessary... here I'm referring to the "slippery icy bottomless crevasse" tile room in the 4th quest).

If you really wanted to, you could re-copy all of the cards as an appendix to the Rulebook. The special rules for each of the quests don't need to be re-copied, but the "unarmed combat" could come up again when a hero loses perhaps his only weapon to a Rust spell, from throwing his dagger, or in the rare other occasion when he loses it and is reduced to 1 CD attack adjacent (not counting any spell effects).

So again to me this isn't an errata, but if you're looking for homebrew suggestions there are lots of ways you could try to "balance" it out. You could use Green dice for unarmed combat (2 in 6 chance of hitting rather than 1 in 6 as in the black shield scenario), but white for the dagger for the Wizard and Elf. Maybe make the Dwarf and Barbarian roll 1 white unarmed, but if they have a dagger, 1 black die. And yes, I would say if you have two shields, you still get to attack with 1 combat die since you always get to attack with one combat die.

[CavemanLogic]

A black shield for hitting to me is just a bit too weak, that's the kind of thing you reserve for crazy traps and such (my personal opinion) but I understand the desire to make the Barbarian stronger than the wizard when it comes to fisticuffs. The Wizard may spend a lot of time with no weapon, so that will just encourage him to keep is distance from any fighting all the more...

Not sure if this was a reply to me or to HispaZargon, but, yes, hitting on only a Black Shield is definitely too weak. That's why I allow the Wizard to roll *two* dice when attacking and choose the best single result, which gives him a 30.56% chance of success (which is fairly close to the base 33.3% chance of success of rolling a White Shield on one die that I give to the Dwarf and Elf). I then came up with the thematic explanation that the Wizard "channels his innate arcane abilities" to help explain why he rolls the two dice and keeps one, while the other Heroes only roll one die for unarmed combat.

Also, to help balance this newly reduced power of unarmed combat with the relatively high difficulty of Quest 6, I add a sleeping Goblin guard in the hallway outside the Hero's cell door, who drops two daggers when defeated, which the Heroes may then pick up and distribute amongst themselves. While sleeping, the Goblin guard does not block movement (so the Heroes can line up on either side of him for a better chance of defeating him before his turn comes around, and so that he can't simply run away, presumably for more reinforcements), and will not defend against the first attack against him. He wakes up and will then block Hero movement, and will defend as normal, starting with the *second* attack against him.

So again to me this isn't an errata, but if you're looking for homebrew suggestions there are lots of ways you could try to "balance" it out. You could use Green dice for unarmed combat (2 in 6 chance of hitting rather than 1 in 6 as in the black shield scenario), but white for the dagger for the Wizard and Elf. Maybe make the Dwarf and Barbarian roll 1 white unarmed, but if they have a dagger, 1 black die. And yes, I would say if you have two shields, you still get to attack with 1 combat die since you always get to attack with one combat die.

What are these different colored green, black, and white dice you refer to? And yes, I agree this is not errata, but official rules placed not in the rulebook itself (but in a quest book instead). And my homebrew solution is *definitely* not errata, but a thematic solution to what I perceived as a bit of a problem (that the official unarmed combat rules were slightly overpowered).



But getting back to *actual* errata... here is one which a quick "search in page" for each of the 24 pages of this thread did not turn up for me...

The Druid's Shapeshift spell states "Shapeshift grants you 1 Defend dice and 1 extra Attack dice when attacking a monster..." This implies that you only get one *total* Defend Die when shapeshifted. This BGG reply indicates that it is supposed to grant one *extra* Defend Die, as confirmed by Zargon on Twitter.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2867733/article/40086282#40086282

Also, another Zargon Twitter post confirms that helmets are metal and shields are not. This means that 1) the Dread spell Rust will not affect shields, and 2) the Druid (who may not wear metal armor) can use a shield.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2756546/article/39959706#39959706

Cheers!