RISE OF THE DREAD MOON discussion

[Maalicia_Ironhoof]

I'd say we need more sexy dungeon business, but wait until I bring some Slaneesh themes into the mix (After I finish work on my Tzeentch mini expansion)

[Kurgan]

I hope if they are updating various potions, we get a full set of those released so far from the previous expansions with the new card backs. Maybe they will throw in a new Potion of Speed from the base game to match.

On a somewhat related note, I wish they had a supplement card deck you could buy with various goodies that never received a card in this reissue, or some new equipment to fill in some missing gaps. The Spear, real Raiment of the Ice Champion and Wolf cards, Elven Chainmail, bosses that didn’t receive a monster card, an Elven Longbow, a Greatsword, a Halberd, etc.

Personally, I can't wait for "Potion of Ludicrous Speed" that has the potential to put a character "into plaid."

[Kurgan]

Edit: More info below (posted March 27th):

Rise of the Dread Moon Designer Preview

Welcome back to the blog, gamers!

The design team has been hard at work on the latest adventure in the HeroQuest world, so we brought Doug back to tell everyone more about it. Take it away, Doug!

Rise of the Dread Moon
Rise of the Dread Moon is an upcoming HeroQuest expansion. We can’t pull back the whole curtain today, but we can share a little bit about why you should be excited to play these quests!

More Cunning Foes
We want Zargon to have more fun! How do you direct your minions optimally when 6’7 of solid muscle is standing in a doorway brandishing a broadsword menacingly and not letting anyone past? We are giving Zargon monsters with spells and abilities to challenge our heroes’ game strategies. Do monsters with strategic maneuvering and coordinated attacks sound good to you? Meet the specter. Specters are ghostly undead monsters who pass right through heroes, walls, and other solid objects. They channel Dread energy to snuff the life from the living regardless of the armor they rely too heavily upon! Oh, and they are even more deadly in numbers.

Rise of the Guardian Knight

Zargon doesn’t have all the fun. The knight makes their quest pack debut with new art and a new miniature! Are you ready wield sword and shield in defense of the realm?

Alchemical Experimentation
Our wizard has been hard at work brewing potions to help our heroes meet the challenge of the Dread Moon. You will see some old favorite elixirs, but without previous hero limitations.

The value of some potion reagents has fluctuated in this war-torn economy, so you may see some changes to the gold coin value of some of our potions.

When playing an older quest, Zargon can price potions as they are presented in that material or use these new costs if their Dread powers command it.

When should I play this expansion? Where does it fall on the HeroQuest timeline?
We see a lot of questions from players about when they should play an expansion pack. Narratively, Rise of the Dread Moon occurs directly after the events of Mage of the Mirror. However, you will find this expansion challenges new players and seasoned heroes alike. Practiced adventurers can follow the thrilling narrative journey as new playable heroes or their classic party, while also leaving space for new players to jump right in and play through a dynamic and exciting story.

How do you plan to play Rise of the Dread Moon? Cast the Far Voice spell and let us know!

From: https://hasbropulse.com/blogs/avalon-hill/rise-of-the-dread-moon-designer-preview

[wallydubbs]

It's nice to see new monsters being added, certainly ones with special abilities such as this, as well as the ability to walk through other heroes, but this kinda sparks a logistics argument in my eyes.

I'm not saying Specters aren't a great addition to Hero Quest (They fit in better then Polar Warbears), but if you're fighting a monster that could float right through you, what good are standard weapons against them?

We don't quite know the mechanics of the Specter yet because there may be some unwritten rule yet on how to hit a specter. But I'm thinking for this to work the heroes may need a special weapon to fight them... Of course the Spirit Blade! The name itself sounds relevant but there's only 1. Maybe a few additional artifacts will be made that work against them. Holy Water is another one. I have no objections to magic spells working against them either, just physical weapons furniture and walls.

Part of me is hoping the Specter miniature will be white like the rest of the undead, but I'm kinda expecting light blue again like FH and MotM monsters.

[SirRick]

I like the Specter because it shows the designers thinking creatively without resorting stat-inflated monsters that keep getting stronger with each quest pack. Whereas the heroes stop gaining real power after the original quest book. Aside from a couple stat boosting artifacts the heroes are already as strong as they are ever going to be.

There was never any need for 2 or 3 wandering monsters at once, polar war bears, or plentiful regular monsters with 5 to 10 body points that hit with 6 combat dice. Occasional monsters of that strength are a fun challenge, but when there are two or three of them in one room, and there are multiple such rooms, it turns into a brutal slog.

I hope the Specter is a sign creative quest design with interesting mechanics, instead of throwing lots of 15 BP monsters at us.

[Kurgan]

Does the Specter only get boosted by other specters (or dread sorcerers that happen to have this "Channel Dread" spell as well)? Because if it was just any monster, that would make them a lot more powerful... I could see Crossbows as being a good way to eliminate these guys as I'll show you in a second...

Is the Specter going to wreck the game by making gameplay very frustrating and annoying? This is being discussed on the discords (both HeroQuestFans and Avalon Hill official, since the blog reveal of the character) (and special thanks to Virg for creating the animation below that illustrates the potential "abuse" of this ability. and yes I agree that a lot depends upon how many figures of this character are in the box and how they are used in quests):

[SirRick]

The card for Channel Dread seems to imply other creatures that are able to cast the spell, not any monster. Also unless the Specter can move, attack, then move (which I doubt), I don’t see any exploitation going on. At least not anything worse than what the heroes already do.

[Kurgan]

Yeah, the shoe being on the other foot isn't so bad!

I personally don't think they even need to do this (if the only point was to beat the "door blocking" strategy), since they could have just given more enemies diagonal attacks in the groups you come upon. Door blocking was how heroes griefed Zargon and they got griefed back with the traps on the other side of the door. But it doesn't have to be a game breaking disaster.

[Kurgan]

AND NOW FOR SOME SPECULATION/PREDICTIONS...

I know that it's probably a fool's errand to judge the Box Art too literally as to what the contents are. I think we can safely conclude that the portrayal of the Heroes, as in previous releases is probably non-literal (that is, the male barbarian/dwarf/wizard and female elf are the ones from the Game System, not evidence of new sculpts inside the box of these characters.. though that would be sweet if they had alternates!).

What is depicted on the box? I was looking at the latest cover image and zooming in on things. We see a female Rogue looking character with a dagger on the right right side appearing to attack the female Elf. Does this mean there's an evil alternate Rogue included?

In the foreground there's on the left a hooded guy with a hand not holding anything but perhaps a magician about to cast a spell (no characteristic magic glow, but it's what they do). Some have called this guy the "cultist." But what would he be? Just an alternate of a Dread Sorcerer?

Next we have in the foreground a guy with his back to us (but distinctive remake elf donkey ears) wielding a dagger. Is this another Rogue? Or could he perhaps be an archer? The archers in MOTM (which directly ties with this one) wielded a dagger as their backup weapon. Or is it too big to be a dagger and is maybe a curved short sword? Then again the Rogue daggers were pretty large on the figures. He too appears turned on the heroes.

Then there are several figures carrying spears...these guys appear to have face helmets reminiscent of the Knight helmet or even a Chaos Warrior mask. They appear to be elves (having little "horns" that are more likely meant to be the donkey ears of the elf again). Many of these figures cannot be seen except the suggestion of a spear point sticking into the panel, so there are 9 or 10 of these depicted that I can see. There are two figures on the battlements on the sides that at first I thought might be halberdiers but if so they are pointing the "handle" at the enemy below which makes little sense so probably more Elven spearmen.

Then we have what I have been calling the "elf chaos Warriors." These are guys in heavy plate armor with plumed helmets and their donkey ears sticking out (that's not very good protection but at least people are wearing protective helmets again so it's a start... you could say it's ceremonial or magic armor... it will be fun to paint even if it doesn't make as much sense for protection, that's just a problem with a lot of fantasy designs, but I digress!). These "elf tanks" are carrying large shields that have a "wing" type fringe/crest on the top and carry a machete or cutlass looking sword in the other hand. I see about 10 of these figures. The interesting part is that while we have a few figures in front of the heroes, who all appear to be attacking as a unit... there are many more of these sword and shield figures (and at least one guy with a spear) far in the distance BEHIND the heroes who appear to be running out of the castle or fort towards the battle. Are these friendlies... allied mercs to the heroes? What if it's like Frozen Horror where we get a bunch of Elven "mercenaries" some of them fighting for the "dread" side and some for the heroes?

Then of course we have the "evil Sir Ragnar" figure attacking the Guardian Knight as if to challenge him specifically in battle. And up above we see the ghostly figures of what we now know to be the Specters. They are specifically three of them, leading many to believe there are probably 3 of these miniatures in the box (it would make sense to have at least that number for the card Channel Dread spell to make sense and more than that might make the game too difficult if their abilities are properly understood).

Next we have "the ghost of sinestra" appearing to command some of the battle. I am very interested in this because it makes me wonder if this is going to be a tile, a figure or what? It might be simply symbolic of an unseen character talked about in the quests, or it might be a physical manifestation. There appears to be small green, human looking face or "mask" of a human face below her, that is hovering above Sir Ragnar. I have taken to imagining this is his "soul" ... and perhaps she is exerting magical control over him. "Corrupted by Chaos" could mean a lot of things. He doesn't appear to be a mindless Zombie like Wardoz. He might not just be a guy who thought Zargon wasn't so bad, or someone who just got bribed to leave his post. He might be a true believer in the evil cause, or plant from the evil side, but what if he's being controlled by magic? Maybe the tragedy is that you can't free him and he's going to have to die, or maybe there is a chance he'll be redeemed? This would certainly be an opportunity to make a more satisfying, dramatic or interesting fate for the character than the EU Return of the Witch Lord kind of springing it on us that this guy we saved 23 quests ago turned out to be a traitor and was executed!

But what of Sinestra? I didn't notice until now that with her in the purple "cloud" are at least two other elf looking faces (different from the green "human mask" face). They seem to be screaming in terror. I was thinking for a minute that perhaps they were more Specters (maybe Sinestra's ghost is like the "Pain Elemental" in Doom2 if people remember that... a floating monster that shoots out flaming skull monsters that attack the player). Or maybe these are more trapped souls.

It occurred to me, and this is pure speculation, that if the "ghostly magical control" thing is true, maybe this time around instead of turning into Werewolves the Heroes (or other characters) can turn into ghosts... maybe we'll get ghostly faced tiles to represent their spirits... while the "bodies" go around doing Zargon's bidding?

Maybe what we're seeing on the box cover is not merely a continuation of the old civil war, a clash between two royal factions of elves with the Heroes picking a side... maybe it's Sinestra's ghost manipulating and taking over control of them?

Maybe alliances shift based on this dynamic... maybe foes becomes friends and vice versa, either due to game mechanic like this or story fiat. Mage of the Mirror already included at least one instance of elves being under evil control and being freed once the monsters controlling them were killed. Maybe this will happen some more?

Now if the box is the size of FH/MOTM it's still hard to say... we don't know what other "swag" might be in there (character sheets? dice? furniture? something we haven't seen before??) but besides tiles, the quest book, probably some entrance/exist doors with unique styling... we'll have the monsters. What should we expect?
If the box art is any indication here are my predictions:

3 Specters (at least that many)
10 Elven Knights (with sword/shield)
12 Elven Spearmen
2 Elven Archers
1 Eleven Mage
1 Guardian Knight
1 Sir Ragnar

That's 30 minis, which is comparable to what we got in the other boxes. Frozen Horror had 21 (12 mercenaries + female barbarian + 2 yeti + 2 polar warbears + 3 ice gremlins and then the HUGE Frozen Horror who is maybe the size of four regular minis). But we also had space taken up by not only the two doors, cards and quest book, also 8 bonus dice and the bonus character pads (very large). Mage of the Mirror had the relatively smaller Giant Wolves (3 of them) + 8 elves (4 each of swordsmen and archers), 4 ogres, and the male elf for only 16 minis, BUT you had the two doors, plus many pieces of furniture some of which were quite large (bookcases, tomb, etc). 33 plastic bits in all (17 furniture pieces including the two doors). So I think it's comparable. We have no idea what tiles there will be this time, but fitting them on one or two sheets like before seems logical. If the list above is complete and we can guess the relative size of the figures is going to be no bigger than a Dread Warrior, that's probably all the plastic that's going in the box as far as plastic goes (30 minis + 2 doors). We might have to wait for Prophecy of Telor's remake to get some more Mythic "exclusive" re-issue pieces (hopefully!).

I would expect the Guardian Knight to follow the hero convention and be cast in red plastic. Would the rest of the figures be in the same shade of greenish light blue as the MOTM set? Or would it be a different set of colors? Many have speculated that the Specters will be a "transparent" type of plastic (maybe see through green?) but that's speculation right now. As long as everything isn't just gray, I'm fine with whatever. Would Sir Rangar be cast in red (hinting at his possible redemption) or gray? Or maybe he'll be the same shade of blue as the rest of the figures (IF they go with that again). I imagine the "Elf Mercenaries" going as good and bad so probably they'll all be the same color, plus it would make them easier to blend with the MOTM elf monsters that could be used as mercs as well if you happen to own both.

If I had to guess what type of tiles we'd see, probably some type of room tiles. It seems very speculative to say they'd be fighting outside, but maybe a large "outdoor area" tile to re-create the battle on the cover, and maybe on the reverse side you have the inside of the palace/fort? Then I'd expect four (or more) tiles for the "ghostly faces" of the dispossessed, and maybe a (possibly large) tile to represent the ghostly Sinestra. Wouldn't surprise me if there were some decorative rooms as these packs usually have to fill up the rest of the space, and maybe some extra tiles to represent odds and ends like skulls or stone blocks.

What else? Sinestra might just be a tile, otherwise she would be the "big figure" this time, like a big cloud of ghostly energy that would be fun to paint. Or maybe they'll just say something like "if you have Mage of the Mirror, you can use her figure instead of the tile" or something. Maybe the Archers and Warrior swordsmen from MOTM can be used in this one to represent mercenary friends or foes too?

What cards will there be? Well there will obviously be a hero card for the Guardian Knight and his three skill cards. There will be a monster card for the Specter and the "Channel Dread" spell card are confirmed. What else? If my assessment of the monsters above is correct, we can expect then more cards to follow: Elven Knight, Elven Spearman, Elven Archer, Elven Mage (if that's not just a stand in for lots of other characters like the Dread Sorcerer). Would there be new spells? (for whom??) Maybe we'd get some alternate skill cards in a deck, for the Knight to swap out (pure speculation, no evidence to suggest it). Will there be a new Alchemist Shop? If so, throw in four new Potion cards. Maybe there will be some special potions that only the Knight can use? (Maybe this will be "his" pack much like Mage of the Mirror was the Elf's and Frozen Horror was the Barbarian's). Then perhaps there might even be a couple of artifacts only the Knight could use, like a special device that ups his Body Points maximum by 2 and his mind points by 1? Maybe we could even expect them to go all the way and it will be a 10 quest adventure with the first three being solo quests for the knight! He'd start with his basic gear and then work his way up to plate armor, a helmet, longsword...
And yes, they told us basically we'll be getting an Alchemy or Potion deck. What will be in it? I'm betting all the Alchemist Shop potions from all the expansions so far, so that would be 12 potions. They said they'd adjust prices. I was thinking they should make the "hero specific" potions more expensive if any hero can use them but it looks like they're just adjusting them because they didn't make the old packs, go figure, it's an attempt to rebalance and probably coincides with the amount of gold you find in this one. Will there be new treasure cards to re-balance the treasure deck? I wouldn't be surprised, as the others gave us new treasure cards. But the potions could even add the two new potions that appear in prophecy of telor as well, and like I said probably the Knight specific ones. Or maybe they'll do away with the alchemist shop concept and just replace it with the deck... at this point I'm hoping for a nice menu poster or board (much easier to go through than a deck, even though a deck is easier to expand later on).


Again a heavy amount of speculation (and even some wishful thinking) in this one, but all based on the artwork and past precedent (the latter which we can't always go by, each expansion seems a little bit unique in its own right and I may be way off, it may be that they are really trying to do something different this time, not imitate the style of other packs and just give us an excuse to re-release missing exclusives... other than the Knight and Sir Ragnar of course, which are two big examples!).

[Virg]

Hooded guys and Armored guys are in the AH Mage of the Mirror preview video as citizen or guards, who are likely those in the Queen's inner circle she didn't trust: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1087533324307808286/1090014737074495629/image.png

I agree on the soul reference below Sinestra, but what if instead of Sir Ragnar, it's the manifestations of Specter's that she's able to create now? As it looks more like at the end of her hair, that she's giving birth to a Specter. And the other 3 Specter's floating out there have already been manifested, and this is new one she's creating from Elves she's corrupted or used her magic on for her ethereal army. As gritty as this is, I beg to ask if this could be a spawning mechanic in game? Sinestra's head appears, and starts spawning Specters based on some rule? That could certainly require a token for the spawn point, and than specter's just start from there. The hero's must reach her and destroy her mirror manifestation before being overrun by Specters, or perhaps get out safely before becoming over run like in KK Q5? That would be insane with their ethereal ability, not to mention Channel Dread.

I created a thread in HQF discord on my RotDM thoughts about available clues a couple weeks ago, but as we've discussed prior threads don't get read.
https://discord.com/channels/916453680876781589/1087533324307808286

An interesting thing about the note from the Rogue release, is that it's primary purpose is not to address the Rogue's missing younger sister, it leaves that as an "Oh yeah, by the way your sister is missing too" towards the end of the letter. It instead focus's on the turmoil within Elethorn, nearly pointing blame directly at the Queen for honoring the Realms defense treaty to send heroes to aid them. And yet in the MotM video, it speaks that the betrayers are of the Queen's own inner circle and she doesn't trust her court, so she instead turns to the Heros of the Realm in order to ensure someone she trusts will save her daughter. Is the rogue being summoned by an opposing faction looking for a bloodline to take over the throne but with their own agenda instead?
In the RotDM box art, the elves in front wear the same outfits as the enemy elves in MotM, with Sir Ragnar wearing colors that are similar.

The additional robed figures and the heavy armored Elves, which are also featured in the MotM promo video on Hasbro Pulses YT channel are infront of and behind the heroes as are the ghostly figures. Has Elethorn been overthrown by the CotRV, with perhaps Sir Ragnar leading this cadre. Perhaps the Guardian Knights now know his betrayal, and that is the reason the Knight is here leading the heroes in what seems like a fight against Ragnar and perhaps trying to ultimately free the kingdom of Elethorn itself once more.
"Forcing the shadowed foes into the piercing light of truth"
A veil over the Ravens (Elethorn), needing a "piercing light of truth"?

I'm throwing my guess in on this, but I think the Cadre of the Raven's Vale are the bad guys. Sinestra has either joined them or is in their control, they helped captured Millandriell, lured back the Rogue, seek to overthrow the Queen, and need to capture or control all those of Royal Blood to take over Elethorn. How Sir Ragnar is a part of it, throws me off, but makes me think that it's how they're going to tie the Knight into the story. He's somehow aided the Cadre, and the King has found out, and sent one of his Guardian Knights with the Hero's to bring him to justice.