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Overview of the Old World

Discuss general topics relating to HeroQuest that don't fit well in the categories below.

Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby cornixt » January 22nd, 2021, 3:13 pm

Cael Darkhollow wrote:The earliest reference I can find in an actual rulebook is a single line in 8th edition Warhammer (2009, core rules) page 159 "From the wilderness came the greenskined orcs and goblins, their insidious spores perhaps unwittingly introduced to the world upon the star vessels of the Old Ones." That is the earliest retcon of Fantasy orcs as spore spawning with no known mention in GW fantasy products before that. (if you can find an earlier fantasy fungus spawned orc/goblin in fantasy battle I owe you lunch.) A second more detailed origin for goblioids as spore spawning was in the Skarsnik novel released in 2013.


The problem with that line from the 8th rulebook is that "insidious spores" is often a literary term to do with an unseen creeping invasion/change rather than a factual description of fungal origins, and nothing of the kind was mentioned in the army books, which still left everyone with shrugged shoulders over what was meant by it. The Skarnik novel would be definitive if it wasn't a novel. GW seems to have decided not to resolve it properly.


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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » January 22nd, 2021, 3:36 pm

j_dean80 wrote:Basically I’m looking for overviews, not reading through thousands of pages. I know I don’t have that kind of free time. For example: Who are the Britannians? Where are they from? Are they part of the Empire? Who is their enemy?

The Old World setting of Warhammer fantasy is loosely based on real world Europe populated with Tolkenesque fantasy races. The in-game history mostly follows later human kingdoms, with a Tolkenesque elves vs. the dwarfs war prehistory prior to human nations establishing to the ruinination of both elder races. The elves retreating from the Old World to their isle of Ulthan except for small pockets of Wood Elves, and the once vast dwarf kingdom weakened by the war shattered by volcanic activity and overrun by orcs, goblins and skaven ratmen with only a handful of holds withstanding.
The major threat is from Chaos, which enters the world from tears in reality at the North pole (and South pole athough rarely mentioned) occasionally spilling forth South to trouble the lands of the Old World.
The first two editions of Warhammer fantasy were largely game mechanics for tabletop battles with little background materials for the world or its inhabitants itself. 3rd edition Warhammer and 1st edition Fantasy roleplay is when the backstory of the Old World started to get fleshed out. 4th edition consolidated and delved deeper into the history expanded on most of the races or armies with their own books and became the base of all later editions.

The Empire is mostly based off of the renaissance era Germanic Holy Roman Empire, Bretonnia based on medieval crusader era France, Tilia based off of Italian city states, Estalia off of seafaring conquest era Spain, Norsica loosely based on Scandinavian countries and viking raiders mixed with Conan the Barbarian style influence, and Kislev based on early Russia.

The Brettonians were knight crusaders involved in the Crusades largely indistinguishable from Empire knights in the earliest editions of Warhammer fantasy, beyond their realms being seperated by a mountain range ruled by a king instead of the Emperor. They were completely ignored in Warhammer 4th edition beyond their territory shown on the map. They became the star of 5th edition being one of the two plastic armies included in the basic game box with the Lizardmen (based on earlier 3rd edition Slann army). Both armies were reimagined from the 3rd edition of Warhammer and recieved Army books in 5th edition, Bretonnia in 1996.

Bretonnia was now heavily infused with Arthurian grail lore, complete with equivalents of the Lady of the Lake and questing for the grail. They also included other elements of British legend such as a version of Robin Hood but retaining the French overlay (including french names) for the Bretonnian army. They exist in a ridgid medieval caste system with peasants as lowly serfs beholden to noble land owners, unlike the mechant oriented group of joined provinces governed by the Empire. They are sometimes allies with the Empire but often foes as well. As the wood elf community of Athel Loren is within their homeland they have complex ally/foe relationships with the elves as well. Bretonnia recieved an updated army book in 6th edition in 2004 but recieved no further updates until Warhammer Fantasy setting was ended during the 8th edition in 2015.
Last edited by Cael Darkhollow on January 22nd, 2021, 3:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » January 22nd, 2021, 3:39 pm

cornixt wrote:
Cael Darkhollow wrote:The earliest reference I can find in an actual rulebook is a single line in 8th edition Warhammer (2009, core rules) page 159 "From the wilderness came the greenskined orcs and goblins, their insidious spores perhaps unwittingly introduced to the world upon the star vessels of the Old Ones." That is the earliest retcon of Fantasy orcs as spore spawning with no known mention in GW fantasy products before that. (if you can find an earlier fantasy fungus spawned orc/goblin in fantasy battle I owe you lunch.) A second more detailed origin for goblioids as spore spawning was in the Skarsnik novel released in 2013.


The problem with that line from the 8th rulebook is that "insidious spores" is often a literary term to do with an unseen creeping invasion/change rather than a factual description of fungal origins, and nothing of the kind was mentioned in the army books, which still left everyone with shrugged shoulders over what was meant by it. The Skarnik novel would be definitive if it wasn't a novel. GW seems to have decided not to resolve it properly.

I certainly agree and that is how I see it, even reading it as "spawn" instead of spores, taking it figuratively rather than literally.
I never liked the fungus greenskins idea of 40k and personally don't consider it a part of Warhammer fantasy.

Edit I just checked and the passage is the same repeated verbatim in the 7th edition Warhammer Fantasy 2006 page 124. definitely not in any earlier editions nor any of the Orcs & Goblins army books 3rd, 6th, 7th or 8th editions.
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The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » January 22nd, 2021, 5:14 pm

I am doing a quick reread of all of my Warhammer collection 3rd through 4th edition, the stuff released just prior or during HeroQuest lifetime to pick out anything specific that may be of interest to HeroQuest players, beyond the shared general fantasy races and old world history.

1987 WFB p.170-175 Elemental spells, although it is a tabletop army game rather than a character dungeon crawl, Summon Elemental and Tunnel through stone are essentially the same spells as HQ
p.81 fimir mentioned
p. 123 Warhammer monsters illustration which was used on the back of a HQ quest book in the UK version but with some races omitted. Here shows an orc, goblin, snotling, skeleton, fimir, zoat, chaos warrior, skaven, beastman, ogre, dark elf, zombie
p.135 the WhiteDwarf painting used for the HQ dwarf on the character cardboard card
p.135 Skeleton horde painting used for the cover of advanced heroquest terror in the dark
p. 217-218 fimir monster description and photo model shown
p. 220 chaos goblins
p. 227-228 chaos warriors
p. 229 orcs
p. 237 ogres
p. 259 mummies
p. 260 skeletons
p. 262 zombies
271-272 elementals

1988 WH Armies
p.14 galvorn armor made from meteroic iron
p. 136-137 fimir race

1988 WH Siege
picture of a skewered fimir in battle p. 76

1988 WH Realm of Chaos Slaves to Darkness
p.7 goblins worshipping Chaos
still reading this one

thats what I noticed that is HQ interesting so far
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Davane » January 23rd, 2021, 12:31 pm

You could be right.

Hogshead reprinted WFRP in 1996, and it's possible that the ork lore from gorkamorka creeped in there somehow, probably due to the confusion/mispelling or Ork and Orc.

I should point out that the "Orcs/Orks as fungus doesn't mean they are fungus themselves. Rather, they spawn in fungus pods, and emerge as Orcs or whatever when "birthed" from the earth, in a scene a bit like how the Oruk and the Oruk-Hai do in LotR.

Image

This is similar to the image I saw, so I might be misremembering it through old age...
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Davane » January 23rd, 2021, 12:41 pm

Cael Darkhollow wrote:1987 WFB p.170-175 Elemental spells, although it is a tabletop army game rather than a character dungeon crawl, Summon Elemental and Tunnel through stone are essentially the same spells as HQ


It's worth noting that the spells listed under Magic in WFB 3rd Edition are IDENTICAL to the spells listed in the WFRP 1st edition rules. Elementalism is an advanced type of magic, but isn't divided into different elements.

WFRP 1st Edition promised a Realms of Sorcery supplement, but this never got released, and had to wait until the Hogshead reprint before it would see the light of day. As such, it's hard to know how much text was original, and how much was changed/completed before release. However, as well as the 8 colleges of magic, there were also four elemental colleges that are said to pre-date the Imperial colleges.

There might be material in early WDs and CJs might shed more light on this, and I believe there was a magazine called Warpstone too for WFRP, that had semi-official status.
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Kurgan » January 23rd, 2021, 6:05 pm

By any chance are those extra colleges of magic similar to the ones that appear in the Inn's card expansion section?


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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Davane » January 24th, 2021, 10:18 am

Kurgan wrote:By any chance are those extra colleges of magic similar to the ones that appear in the Inn's card expansion section?


Yes. The 8 colleges of Magic are:

Bright Magic
Light Magic
Amethyst Magic
Jade Magic
Amber Magic
Grey Magic
Celestial Magic
Gold Magic

The first four are the colleges of Magic that also appeared in AHQ, and make an appearance in 2nd edition WFRP.
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Pancho » January 24th, 2021, 11:56 am

Davane wrote:
Kurgan wrote:By any chance are those extra colleges of magic similar to the ones that appear in the Inn's card expansion section?


Yes. The 8 colleges of Magic are:

Bright Magic
Light Magic
Amethyst Magic
Jade Magic
Amber Magic
Grey Magic
Celestial Magic
Gold Magic

The first four are the colleges of Magic that also appeared in AHQ, and make an appearance in 2nd edition WFRP.

It’s not one of the Imperial colleges of magic but the Ice Queen of Kislev also had Ice Magic in the 4th edition Empire army book I think, and there are Ice magic spells also here at the Inn.


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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby j_dean80 » February 12th, 2021, 8:26 am

So, I was reading through Battle Masters. It states on the front of the box “From the Makers of HeroQuest”. Well, in the manual it talks about the Empire, Altdorf, Reikwald, River Tengin, Grunburg, and River Reik. These are Warhammer locations, so this further places HeroQuest in the Warhammer World
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