Putting a Price on Artifacts

[Kurgan]

Or what about when they expire they have a random effect... like maybe they explode, or turn into poison or some other weird transformation? Could be interesting.

[Count Mohawk]

Knightkrawler had a pretty good idea for "potion expiration" in his system:
The potions Heroes find would be broken up into two different types: regular Potions, which can be kept between Quests, and weaker Tonics, which cannot.
As your Heroes accumulate more Potions, you can quietly shift things so they find more Tonics and fewer Potions - although, unless you're throwing enough challenge in your quests to force them to break into their Potion supply, this system can only enforce a loose kind of parity. To tip the scale in the other direction, you have to beat the Heroes down yourself.

[Anderas]

Tonics were indeed a good idea.

To beat the potions out of the heroes is definitely the better way Mohawk. More fun, too
I once posted a proposal to add a Fimir to each room until the potions are back down to a normal level. I can remember that posting because I received angry answers .
Using the Questimator to precalculate it is more elegant.

[wallydubbs]

I must've had something screwed up. I intended to list off a few prices for RotWL artifacts, but I looked in the quest booklet at a Potion of Restoration and see that it's listed for 500 gold!

I listed it earlier for 300, I guess I must've misread it. Just the same, I thought 300 was insanely high, 500 just adds insult to injury. Has the whole world gone mad? 1BP is not worth 250 gold! No, no, no!

I get that weapons are cheaper by comparison to potions because the heroes can max out with equipment, but there's no limit to potions, so after the game system there's really not much else to spend your gold on.

For completing the Frozen Horror each hero receives a reward of 1000 gold. You're telling me completing the Frozen Horror will only buy me 2 Potions of Restoration? No sir! This will not stand!

I like the prices better in that book let I got from Ebay, 50 gold seems better for 1 body and mind point, since heroes rarely lose mind points.

[Anderas]

Yes, those potion shops are heavily overpriced.
I have my potion shop here, adapting the prices from time to time if a potion gets bought too often or too rarely.

I took my inspiration from Slev and Sotiris and then adapting everything a little bit.
Healing an MP is a little more expensive in my shop - if you lose it you have a severe disadvantage with the next chaos sorcerer. Losing a BP does not represent such a disadvantage.

[slev]

I took my inspiration from Slev and Sotiris and then adapting everything a little bit.

Yeah, I remember having to go through a load of numbers on that!
My costs where comparative with my armoury set, which was also priced based on the gold take from the quests.

[wallydubbs]

I think the Potion Prices are insanely overpriced within the quest booklets. All of them need to be rethought.

The armor, however seems to be reasonable. So in relation to previously listed artifacts, the prices of Return of the Witch Lord artifacts:

Spell Scroll Heal Body - 300 gold
Spell Scroll Courage - 300 gold
Spell Scroll Fire of Wrath - 100 gold
Spell Scroll Ball of Flame - 200 gold
Spell Scroll Pass Through Rock - 100 gold
Reason- just to make it uniform with my explanation o
Keller's Keep artifacts.

Magical Throwing Dagger- 200 gold
Reason- same as Keller's Keep

Rabbit Boots- 525 gold
Reason: there is an average of 8.8 jumpable traps in RotWL, we'll say only half of those can be detected due to monster presence.
A Potion of Dexterity is valued at 100 gold in the Alchemist shop, but the Rabbit Boots give the hero a 1 in 6 chance to fail. Divide the 100 gold by 6 = close enough to 17, multiply that by 5 = 85. 85 x 4.4 = 375, and tack on an additional 150 since the hero keeps it.

Armband of Healing- 600 gold
Reason- I've valued 1BP to 150 gold earlier. This provides 2BPs per quest and doesn't require an action to use. I would say this is the most valuable artifact in Return of the Witch Lord and can save the hero's life multiple times over multiple quests.
However I would limit it to the Wizard's use if he's wearing Bracers from the UK's armory, as well the Elf if he has the Magical Elven Bracers.

Dust of Disappearance- 100 gold
Reason: it's practically the same thing as Veil of Mist. The only difference is that it doesn't take an action to use (depending how you play), however it can only be used by the hero holding the bag. You can't cast it on a hero across the room.

Anti-Poison Quill- 300 gold
Reason: The only difference between this and the Venom Antidote from the Alchemist's shop is that this cures up to 3BPs of damage, whereas the Venom Antidote only does 2. The Venom Antidote is valued at 300 gold in the Alchemist shop, which I find way overpriced. But I also value 1BP to 150 gold, and this cures up to 3BP of damage, but only damage caused by poison and there are very few poison traps that take more then 2BPs. So the conditions to use this to its maximum potential is very rare.

[wallydubbs]

Frozen Horror Artifacts:

The Amulet of the North: 700 gold
Reason: This one is a bit difficult to place value on, where the Armband of Healing adds 2 additional body points that can save a hero from death, this also adds 2BP, but before every quest. So you gotta wonder which is more important? It may add up the same but this adds confidence to the start of the game, but Armband of Healing adds safety towards the end of the game.
However there's also an additional mind point to factor in as well as who can wear it and where it applies: this is only valuable to the Barbarian and can only be worn around the neck. The only trouble this adds is wearing the Talisman of Lore at the same time, Armband of Healing can hinder the Wizard's and Elf's bracers.

Armband of Ice: 350 gold
Reason: the Frozen Horror is the most dangerous and difficult of the Hero Quest games, in the desolate cold heroes can die very easily. This artifact, however, gives you a few less things to worry about such as Ice Vaults and Rivers, Mind Freeze and Chill spells, etc. Only problem is it can hinder the Bracers the Wizard or Elf might wear and it doesn't really have a use after the Frozen Horror expansion.
I liken it to be more powerful then the Fire Ring, except it doesn't have a use beyond this expansion.

Ring of Warmth: 300 gold
Reason: it's not as protective as the Armband of Ice as this can't protect from Mind Freeze, but the heroes have less to wear around their fingers then on their arms.

Snowshoes of Speed : 400 gold
Reason: these shoes can be underappreciated considering what they can do. Once acquiring these the best thing to do is put them on a hero with Plate Mail. As much as Plate Mail slows a hero down, these can help him keep pace as well as preventing slippage and the possibility of rolling off into the ice chasm.
The only down side is you can't use them after the Frozen Horror.

Spell Scroll: Chill- 150 gold
Reason: it's a certified 1 hit, better then Fire of Wrath in that sense, however you need to be close enough to touch to work this spell. So it's slightly better then Gire of Wrath but not as good as Magical Throwing Daggers The smart hero will use it on the monster that's down to 1 BP.

Spell Scroll: Ice Bridge- 175 gold
Reason: although it's a spell of limited use, a Potion of Dexterity (listed at 100 gold) can do just as well except all heroes can benefit from crossing the Ice Chasm.

Spell Scroll: Ice Storm- 300 gold
Reason: this can do a maximum of 12 damage up to 4 monsters at once. Odds are you're not gonna get that lucky, so we're looking closer to 6. It's a 1 time use and the only spell scroll that'll effect more then 1 monsters at once. However I can't find the heart to rank any 1-time spell use more then 300.

Spell Scroll: Psychic Recovery- 200 gold
Reason: it's very unlikely that the Wizard will fail to roll any s when Mind Freeze is cast against him. Most likely it would be cast against Barbarian or Dwarf, so I don't see this healing any more then 3MP. The only time it's detrimental is when a hero reaches 0MP, and although that CAN happen there's really no other use for this spell.

Spell Scroll: Skate- 150 gold
Reason: this spell encapsulates the Veil of Mist power (100 gold) and let's you add 6 spaces to movement while avoiding slippage (150 gold), but I'm taking off 100 because this spell can only be cast on the hero reading the scroll, you can't cast it on a friend.

Spell Scroll: Warmth- 225 gold
Reason: I've valued the Heal Body Spell Scroll at 300 gold, which recovers 4BP, this only does 3.
As stated earlier, I'm ranking 1BP to the value of 150 gold, but spell scrolls lose value because it costs an action to cast.

[Anderas]

Amulet of the North is less important than the Armband of Healing - imagine you're halfway through a Quest and one of the Heroes is close to death. The group can give him the Armband of Healing but not the Amulet. Or did I misunderstand?

Armband of Ice, Yes, it can be a "cheap" one.

Snowshoes... never appreciated in connection with plate mail. Good find!

Ice Storm... you're totally right. And I think the real damage is even lower. It's nice, but it's one time and doesn't come back. It's main problem is that it is very situational indeed. I am ready to give whatnot advantages - as long as they are so situational they are never too strong.
It's like the ring of Warmth. A moderate protection which is super-situational... by the way, I'd make that one cheaper. Protection against one single spell which is also situational... No. Not much worth.

Generally I totally like situational-but-then-strong things. They enable a little bit of tactical thinking in an otherwise quite tactic-free game. You want to enforce that situation where this or that effect works well. This enforcement, that's tactic. Orcs Bane is a super example. You can use it to the full effect only if you are standing adjacent to two Orcs. That's a rare opportunity and a good player who directly sees and uses this opportunity.
Anything that makes a difference between a good and a bad player is good in my eyes.

[wallydubbs]

Amulet of the North is less important than the Armband of Healing - imagine you're halfway through a Quest and one of the Heroes is close to death. The group can give him the Armband of Healing but not the Amulet. Or did I misunderstand?

It's like the ring of Warmth. A moderate protection which is super-situational... by the way, I'd make that one cheaper. Protection against one single spell which is also situational... No. Not much worth.

You have a good point on the Armband of Healing, as this can be passed between players and the Amulet of the North specifically effects the Barbarian.
The Amulet of the North has no value to any of the 3 other heroes. I suppose I was thinking in regards of how valuable it would be to the Barbarian. How much he would pay for it if it was otherwise unavailable.
I guess I valued it 100 gold higher then the Armband of Healing because of the additional mind point.
But the Amulet of the North can be situationally better too; more so if the Barbarian dies and is administered the Elixir of Life, he gets to recover 10BP, you get more bang for your buck that way.

In regards to the Ring of Warmth and Armband of Ice, I've already valued the Fire Ring at 200. Perhaps that was a little steep. Just the same, I felt these two artifacts should be more valuable then the Fire Ring.
In some quests the heroes need to pass through an Ice Vault to complete the quest, the Ring of Warmth and Armband of Ice allow them to take their time with searches in those rooms.
Also the Ice Rivers can be quite deadly.