HeroQuest canon?

[knightkrawler]

It is, and I haven't seen Prometheus.

[QorDaq]

Since we are derailing here...

I liked Prometheus better than either of the first two AvP flicks. I'd put it on par with Resurrection, which I actually like enough to watch again every now and then. Alien and Alien 2, are by far the best followed by Predators? Maybe, because they all share a universe now. Not a huge Alien 3 fan, though it has its place for being atmospheric. I thought Predator 2 was better than the first, but mostly thanks to Bill Paxton who has been pretty much great in everything I have seen him in.

So, out of that garbled mess of crossover IPs and the like, I'd say yes, in my mind, Prometheus is part of the Alien franchise as much as Predator 2 is. I was never adverse to the expansion of the Alien and Predator universes as intersecting with each other because I liked the Dark Horse comics. In that sense, Prometheus just further expands the larger story that the other films take place in. However, I don't necessarily feel that the mixing and matching of these various mythos has been done well, and would have liked to have seen better continuity.

I am further of the opinion that, the next two follow up films to Prometheus 'Could' be worthy efforts and will in all liklihood be added to my current DVD collection of Alien and Predator films which appear in my library in chronological order as though it were one series... But, I am anal that way.

Bottom line; my disliking a particular film or its execution does not make it cease to be part of the story. As geek culture has evolved, I fear that some of the bad habits of the comic book industry has seeped into film, and generally not for the better. Specifically the concept of the Reboot. When IPs get endlessly rebooted to serve whatever purpose, it fractures the community and also the continuity of the stories.

Abrams-verse Trek, and the seemingly endless Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man reboots also come to mind.

As disjointed as it is, at least the Alien and, to some degree, maybe the Predator franchises, have been able to tell stories that kind of stand on their own. This means that we don't have to sit through different versions of an origin story over and over. Which may be why I don't have a problem with Prometheus, since it is the first film of it's kind, clearly sharing the lore of Aliens while doing its own thing. Unlike the AvP films, I don't think Prometheus messes with continuity too much (unless I missed it). What most people seem to have a problem with, was that the Space Jockey Alien seen in the first Alien film, becomes less mysterious.

Which reminds me of how frustrating the episodes in Star Trek Enterprise were, when the writers decided to finally "Explain" why Klingons in TOS did not have ridges. For many years the reason was debated by fans, and when CBS finally answered the question, it was dissatisfying. I think Prometheus may be an analog to that.

If there is a larger point here, it might be that developers (for film or games, or comics for that matter), do not (frequently), seem make the effort to explain the need for a "Do Over", or take into account what the impact of just starting over might have on existing material. This leaves it to the fans to try to make sense of, which in turn inevitably leads to a variety of differing opinions and preferences.

[Big Bene]

Since we are derailing here...

Promethus was decent better than resurrection surely

A1>A2>Pred1>A3>Predators>A4>Pred2=AvP>Prometheus>AvP2

Havn't seen Prometheus, Sulla Terra or AvP2, but:

A2 > A1 > A4 > P1 > P2 > AvP1 > A3

A1 was an alltime classic, but it was A2 which defined the franchise.
All later films, games and other spin-ofs center around the Aliens-Marines conflict (Marines may be substituted by other human professional fighters). Even SpaceHulk is a barefaced plagiate of A2. And it's much more fun to watch than the angsty, underexposed original, at least for me.
Alien 3 was boring, confusing and overall meaningless. It added nothing to the story. Alien 4 was brilliant, skurille and showed the humans and the Aliens in all shades of grey. No heroes, only anti-heroes.

The AvP franchise is hard to compare, anyway. It's basically professional fan fiction. Done by nerds for nerds. Could never stand alone, but solely rests on the references to the older films. It wants to be a sequel and nothing more or less. This niche it fills decently. It's purpose is to evoke nostalgia, and this it does pretty good.

[Daedalus]

I'm pretty close to whitebeard in terms of HQ canon:
HQ Game system, KK, RotWL, AtOH, WoM, Dark Company, excluding almost all art (or taken with a grain of salt establishing the Old World setting, but not the timeline), the reason explained below.
Warhammer Old World geography & topography are canon, established by the connections between both games sprinkled here and there; because of the many ambiguities, they are alternate realities to each other, which makes the Warhammer lore canon, if only for seperating timelines and setting up the fact that the HQ background world is an alternate timeline to the Warhammer Fantasy world, sharing geography and much of their history.

Also, GK, you should take into account that almost all art up to the release of AtOH has existed before. We can interpret each case (cause it's fun), but we can't ignore that fact of corporate cost-effectiveness.
Most had been released as Warhammer art or generic Gary Chalk art or whatever the case may be.
They re-used art published before in Warhammer books, as in the case of that picture in the back of KK.
From that picture, they took out the Zoat and left in the Snotling.
Probably because it was in the foreground, making it necessary to re-do art, but you could probably argue that it was left in for a reason.
I won't. I'm a glass-half-empty kind of guy when it comes to the creative processes involved in HeroQuest.*
I still say, sloppiness and cost-effectiveness were the order of the day back then....[/i].

+1

Much of the art is indeed taken from previous publications.
We can call it cheap or lazy.

I still say, sloppiness and cost-effectiveness were the order of the day back then.

I agree! But the fact of the matter is they did put that art in the official books.
I'm of the opinion that once it's there and it's printed, the reasons and intentions doesn't count for anything....

My "canon" doesn't include art that isn't supported by mechanics. Borin's Armor is an artifact (EU Quest treasure.) Many see the included helmet from the card art and reason Borin's Armor can't be used with a helmet from the armory/equipment card; it is equivalent to chain mail and a helmet. I figure as an NA player that "These items [artifacts] include weapons, armor, and items that provide additional powers." [NA Instruction Booklet, p. 17] I key on the wording of the Artifact Card, treating it as fast plate mail and allowing a helmet from the armory to be combined. I overrule art with rules.

Snotlings aren't represented anywhere else in a published Hero Quest product. There are no supporting figures, and they were passed over in the Marvel Winter Special, which included many extra Games Workshop monsters with HQ stats. Since snotlings lack actual support within Hero Quest, they fail my HQ Canon test.

That isn't to say snotlings can't fit in a fan-designed Quest well. The snotling art actually suggests this possibility to fans (good enough to leave in) and that is the value of its inclusion, in my opinion.

[Wolf]

In all honestly I consider what comes in the original box canon. After that I really don't much focus on the universe as being Warhammer Fantasy Universe. I like it being a general universe where anything can be possible instead of being forced into a small area of "warhammer fantasy canon".

So overall I don't focus on the canon and I don't really care too much about the expansions.

[whitebeard]

In all honestly I consider what comes in the original box canon. After that I really don't much focus on the universe as being Warhammer Fantasy Universe. I like it being a general universe where anything can be possible instead of being forced into a small area of "warhammer fantasy canon".

So overall I don't focus on the canon and I don't really care too much about the expansions.

You could have just said "I agree with Whitebeard" I don't take issue with KK or RotWL.

What do we really mean by canon anyways? In this context, I define canon as a set of events, persons, places, things, and perhaps rules that you do not logically contradict when you add expansions. If you go with loose sequences of quests like the original quest book and no map, it is pretty hard to violate anything... Unless you kill Zargon/Morcar, that is clearly out of bounds. I'm pretty sure the universe explodes in an array of rainbows, unicorns, sparkles, hearts, flowers, and Carebears(TM) if this happens. So don't do it!

[knightkrawler]

Armageddon:

[whitebeard]

Armageddon:

That's it!!!

[Big Bene]

Unless you kill Zargon/Morcar, that is clearly out of bounds. ... So don't do it!

Uhm - did you read his threads / clicked his signature? He already did.

[whitebeard]

Unless you kill Zargon/Morcar, that is clearly out of bounds. ... So don't do it!

Uhm - did you read his threads / clicked his signature? He already did.

Clearly you missed my /sarcasm tags.

I think Kk got it though.