Heroquest remake by Hasbro - The BIG discussion thread

[j_dean80]

He’s uplifting spirits

uplifting spirits... Necromancer!

Its a witch, burn it!.

No, no, no, that is the Halfling Warlock. Which is basically an oxymoron in itself.

[wallydubbs]

We will do the unboxings precisely BECAUSE of Hasbro's lack of transparency, their tight lips and lack of info for those who want more. Yes, it would be better if they just answered all our questions. Part of me wants them to stick to their guns with what they intend for this remake. Another part of me (a BIG part) wants it not to suck. If it does suck, I hope they lose money and this teaches them a lesson not to disappoint their target audience, we the fans.

I don't think it's going to suck, just be carbon copy of the original with only few minor changes in terms of gameplay. Though I seriously wonder if they're even going to bother playtesting these invading D&D characters. From what I read of them they seem so detached from the rest of the game in terms of mechanics and such.

It's Stephen Baker's quest pack that I'm more particularly looking forward to.
I don't remember, is there supposed to be another quest pack accompanying mythic tier? I know the Dragon one didn't make it due to missing the $4 million mark. That's fine by me, I'd be worried a new quest pack by anyone other then Baker would try to D&Dize HeroQuest the way these new crappy characters have.

[j_dean80]

We will do the unboxings precisely BECAUSE of Hasbro's lack of transparency, their tight lips and lack of info for those who want more. Yes, it would be better if they just answered all our questions. Part of me wants them to stick to their guns with what they intend for this remake. Another part of me (a BIG part) wants it not to suck. If it does suck, I hope they lose money and this teaches them a lesson not to disappoint their target audience, we the fans.

I don't think it's going to suck, just be carbon copy of the original with only few minor changes in terms of gameplay. Though I seriously wonder if they're even going to bother playtesting these invading D&D characters. From what I read of them they seem so detached from the rest of the game in terms of mechanics and such.

It's Stephen Baker's quest pack that I'm more particularly looking forward to.
I don't remember, is there supposed to be another quest pack accompanying mythic tier? I know the Dragon one didn't make it due to missing the $4 million mark. That's fine by me, I'd be worried a new quest pack by anyone other then Baker would try to D&Dize HeroQuest the way these new crappy characters have.

The Quest Pack to go with the Orc Bard ye be thinkin’ of. Aarrr!

[Kurgan]

Yeah, when I got all positive and stuff, that's not to deny the feelings of those fans who are skeptical or even a little ticked right now.

But yes, I too have a very positive attitude. A straight up copy with a new coat of paint and some easily ignored extras suits me fine, if it's the choice between that and a total revamp that bears little resemblance to the classic original versions.

Positive signs:

They announced color figures instead of all gray.
They altered the Druid outfit when people mocked the original one.
They announced it for other regions outside of North America after complaints and outrageous shipping prices were discovered to other territories.
They did a Q&A to try to re-assure us (even if it was highly scripted).
They said repeatedly that it would be only "minor" changes from what we remember, using the US version as a base.
They hinted that they'd add new content if people requested it.

Hints, but not positive proof, that it will be sold in stores. If that will be limited to specialty game shops or expand to big box retail remains to be seen.

Now of course they could be taking us for a ride, or maybe whoever is in charge at Hasbro could make an evil corporate decision and pull the rug out from under the well wishing developers of the remake between now and September/October or whenever it actually ships. How soon between this "pledge fulfillment" and when it comes to actual shops? Who knows but it sounds like they plan to do that, as opposed to just making this a high priced collectible for uber-fans/completists on the internet.

I want to support remakes that don't fix what isn't broken.
I too am curious to see if Stephen Baker has "still got it."

Negative signs:
radio silence since the fundraiser ended.
the fact that it was a fundraiser in the first place.
D&D vibes on the new content (I'm not a D&D player so I'm neutral on this point, but I want whatever we get to "feel" like it "fits" into Hero Quest, I'm just not making it a deal-breaker if one or two things in the unlocks end up forgettable or stupid).

Any review I do will include the bad and the ugly, not just the good. You're not talking to a deluded fanboy here!

Knowing I can "fix it in post" and "I still have the old version on my shelf" doesn't mean I don't want this to be as good as it can be. Already many have decided without the Gamesworkshop partnership and with the inclusion of the Orc Bard, it has to suck. For those people, I hope you return it for a refund and send them a politely worded letter of disappointment. I'll have to make up my mind when it arrives and I see what's really in the box. I have high hopes... which I didn't have when the project was first announced, or really until the final week of the fundraiser. I pledged, and so whatever opinions you get out of me will be honest and based on verifiable evidence.

[Kurgan]

We will do the unboxings precisely BECAUSE of Hasbro's lack of transparency, their tight lips and lack of info for those who want more. Yes, it would be better if they just answered all our questions. Part of me wants them to stick to their guns with what they intend for this remake. Another part of me (a BIG part) wants it not to suck. If it does suck, I hope they lose money and this teaches them a lesson not to disappoint their target audience, we the fans.

I don't think it's going to suck, just be carbon copy of the original with only few minor changes in terms of gameplay. Though I seriously wonder if they're even going to bother playtesting these invading D&D characters. From what I read of them they seem so detached from the rest of the game in terms of mechanics and such.

It's Stephen Baker's quest pack that I'm more particularly looking forward to.
I don't remember, is there supposed to be another quest pack accompanying mythic tier? I know the Dragon one didn't make it due to missing the $4 million mark. That's fine by me, I'd be worried a new quest pack by anyone other then Baker would try to D&Dize HeroQuest the way these new crappy characters have.

The Quest Pack to go with the Orc Bard ye be thinkin’ of. Aarrr!

They put the stats out there ahead of time so WE FANS would playtest them. But does that mean anything? Would they make any changes between now and release day (print new text on the cards) based on our feedback? The criticism of the Druid attire was only an aesthetic thing.

We thought it was silly to have a weapon only one character can buy (but nothing about other characters not being able to use it). We questioned what "metal armor" implied (are shields made of wood? is the cloak usable by other heroes besides the Wizard if it exists at all in this version?). We wondered if it was overpowered if a hero could recover a spell multiple times in a single quest. We also questioned the progression of these characters with new gear over time. One character was explicitly designed to be "selfish" which might imply it is involved in solo quests (or would seem to go against the spirit of the NA version, though not necessarily the EU one where players could compete with each other).

I already have a plan to "fix" the set too, a Piratey Orcish Cleric, but what do they actually plan to do with this guy? Is he just a couple of cards, or does he have a backstory written in some quest book? A quest book entirely devoted to his high note adventures? Perhaps a tale he told? We have no idea. But there are three new Heroes and only two quest books (the third one was the dragon) so it's not as simple as assuming each one was focused on that one, like the EQP/BQP were focused on one hero for the first part.

Many of us have thus far assumed that these new characters are meant as drop in replacements for one or more of the four classic Heroes in the classic 34 quests. I'm more curious about how they fit into these brand new unknown quests because they could be balanced with those characters in mind. But that also means they should be usable with the classic heroes, unless they follow the EQP/BQP model. Like say you get a solo quest for each character and THEN you grab a group together. I assume they are sticking to the four heroes vs. Zargon (Morcar) model of the classic versions.

[wallydubbs]

We thought it was silly to have a weapon only one character can buy (but nothing about other characters not being able to use it). We questioned what "metal armor" implied (are shields made of wood? is the cloak usable by other heroes besides the Wizard if it exists at all in this version?). We wondered if it was overpowered if a hero could recover a spell multiple times in a single quest. We also questioned the progression of these characters with new gear over time. One character was explicitly designed to be "selfish" which might imply it is involved in solo quests (or would seem to go against the spirit of the NA version, though not necessarily the EU one where players could compete with each other).

I already have a plan to "fix" the set too, a Piratey Orcish Cleric, but what do they actually plan to do with this guy? Is he just a couple of cards, or does he have a backstory written in some quest book? A quest book entirely devoted to his high note adventures? Perhaps a tale he told? We have no idea. But there are three new Heroes and only two quest books (the third one was the dragon) so it's not as simple as assuming each one was focused on that one, like the EQP/BQP were focused on one hero for the first part.

Were you serious about there being a quest pack for the Orc Bard? I took that as a joke.

Well that's part of the problem I had with these new D&D characters, is that their backstory is already half written... maybe not so much the Druid, but who really needs a Druid if you already have a Wood Elf?
The Barbarian, Elf , Dwarf and Wizard are generic enough where players could project their own backstory onto them. In one of my groups, my brother gave the Dwarf character a background in pirating and my cousin turning the Wizard into a metrasexual coward. If they had thought up turning the Barbarian into a half Bard who sings while he fights, that would be great on them! But I don't see how the Orc Bard could work without him being gay, or come to the understanding of why heroes would suddenly trust a Halfling that bonded with a Demon.

I really don't think they're going to even attempt at explaining these characters backstory. They're just going to be there as some bonus material that doesn't quite fit. But really, the Demonic Halfling thing kinda needs an explanation.

And yeah, why give her a wand that even the Wizard can't use!? He's a freaking Wizard! They're ostracizing the beloved Wizard for D&D character that doesn't mesh with the originals.
Half these guys can't wear the armor that is alloted to improve character defense! Asides from the Wizard, that's part of the gameplay mechanic. Buying armor and better weapons means buying upgrades for you characters offense and defense.

[j_dean80]

We thought it was silly to have a weapon only one character can buy (but nothing about other characters not being able to use it). We questioned what "metal armor" implied (are shields made of wood? is the cloak usable by other heroes besides the Wizard if it exists at all in this version?). We wondered if it was overpowered if a hero could recover a spell multiple times in a single quest. We also questioned the progression of these characters with new gear over time. One character was explicitly designed to be "selfish" which might imply it is involved in solo quests (or would seem to go against the spirit of the NA version, though not necessarily the EU one where players could compete with each other).

I already have a plan to "fix" the set too, a Piratey Orcish Cleric, but what do they actually plan to do with this guy? Is he just a couple of cards, or does he have a backstory written in some quest book? A quest book entirely devoted to his high note adventures? Perhaps a tale he told? We have no idea. But there are three new Heroes and only two quest books (the third one was the dragon) so it's not as simple as assuming each one was focused on that one, like the EQP/BQP were focused on one hero for the first part.

Were you serious about there being a quest pack for the Orc Bard? I took that as a joke.

Well that's part of the problem I had with these new D&D characters, is that their backstory is already half written... maybe not so much the Druid, but who really needs a Druid if you already have a Wood Elf?
The Barbarian, Elf , Dwarf and Wizard are generic enough where players could project their own backstory onto them. In one of my groups, my brother gave the Dwarf character a background in pirating and my cousin turning the Wizard into a metrasexual coward. If they had thought up turning the Barbarian into a half Bard who sings while he fights, that would be great on them! But I don't see how the Orc Bard could work without him being gay, or come to the understanding of why heroes would suddenly trust a Halfling that bonded with a Demon.

I really don't think they're going to even attempt at explaining these characters backstory. They're just going to be there as some bonus material that doesn't quite fit. But really, the Demonic Halfling thing kinda needs an explanation.

And yeah, why give her a wand that even the Wizard can't use!? He's a freaking Wizard! They're ostracizing the beloved Wizard for D&D character that doesn't mesh with the originals.
Half these guys can't wear the armor that is alloted to improve character defense! Asides from the Wizard, that's part of the gameplay mechanic. Buying armor and better weapons means buying upgrades for you characters offense and defense.

The Orc Bard Quest Pack is unfortunately real. Hopefully it doesn’t suck.

Hobbits despise magic or any adventure in Tolkien lore. D&D has magic wielding Halflings though. We have that to thank for the Warlock. Maybe the Warlock can just be an old schoolmate of the Wizard that he vouches for, even though they turned more towards the dark magic.

[Pancho]

I didn’t know that a quest pack for the orc bard is actually confirmed?!?

I thought it was just that the author of the Spirit Queens Torment pack has said that one of its themes will be “orcs as allies”. Also the cover art shows the souls/ghosts of orcs floating around the Spirit Queen, with the artist has depicted them much more sympathetically than anything consistent with actual Heroquest. The orcs have long flowing hair and are pretty handsome looking. The designers are obviously trying to reinvent them as being much more “human”.
Couple all that with the dumb Orc pirate bard, and we arrive haltingly at the theory that this bard might feature strongly in the pack itself. Meaning that the pack could be a non-starter for all the fans who dislike the bard and/or the new conceptualisation of orcs in general. We are used to tweaking and rewriting official Heroquest where necessary and actually enjoy doing it, but if the whole premise is to too entangled in a ludicrous concept, we won’t be able to save this one.
Given that we’ve been waiting patiently for like 30 years for new material, it’s all a bit of a waste and a shame.

[Davane]

Hobbits despise magic or any adventure in Tolkien lore. D&D has magic wielding Halflings though. We have that to thank for the Warlock. Maybe the Warlock can just be an old schoolmate of the Wizard that he vouches for, even though they turned more towards the dark magic.

Another D&D-ism, as 3rd edition saw Halflings migrate from Hobbit clones to minaturised kick-ass Humans. The trend for this in D&D goes back even even earlier, however, since the Dark Sun campaign saw Halflings become moody and cynical, explained by the total defilement of their lands, and Dragonlance saw the birth of Kender, which is probably the prototype of the adventuring Halflings from 3rd edition onwards, thanks to their innate wanderlust and, well, not be Hobbits.

This is an example of character evolution and the adjustment of character traits in games, and it could be argued that it's a fairly positive one - for D&D. There's a little conflict with Forgotten Realms, but the use of subclasses allowed for a reasonable compromise, so those that wanted the new Halflings could use them, whilst those that wanted to remain faithful to the old Hobbit-esque Halflings of the setting could do so as well.

The problem is that GW never updated their Halflings in the Warhammer World, keeping them as pure Hobbit-esque Tolkien clones. In the Warhammer World, the Halflings have a fairly important role to play, in that Halflings are one of the few truly Chaos-resistant races in the land, and therefore have NO access to the Winds of Magic, outside of religion (which, in the Warhammer World, sees deities acting as filters to protect priests from the corruptions of Chaos and magic).

So, according to lore, the Halfling Warlock isn't just an oxymoron, it's an impossibility. The Halfling Warlock cannot exist, because in doing so, they would no longer be a Halfling. This, alone, would mark the Halfling Warlock as either an interloper, or more likely, simply a diminutive daemon-possessed Chaos Mutant. I could imagine a shape-changing Chaos Mutant attempting to infiltrate the Mootland to undermine the Halflings from within.

The irony is that, seeing the minimal impact that Halflings ever had in HQ (compared to, say, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay), it's feasible simply to overlook this lore of the Halfling, and just go with these new Halflings not being Chaos-resistant. So, the actually impossible can be possible just by changing a bit of canon, without too much fuss.

This is what makes the Orc Bard so onerous. Orcs are well established in HQ, even outside of GW and the Warhammer World, and the idea of an Orc Bard is largely incongruous with what we have seen and known as existing Orc behaviour within the brand previously, and more importantly, if NuHQ is primary a reprint, what will have been established within the NuHQ brand as well. Within the GS, the first half of the Quest Book sees Orcs acting as primary antagonists, not just as cannon fodder, with not one, but two NAMED Orc leaders being the main antagonists in the game. Not to mention that Orcs are the primary antagonists within Kellar's Keep, which is also reprinted with the Mythic tier, and the WoM includes an Orc Shaman as one of the lieutenants of Morcar.

The problem is that the "Orcs as Allies" motif isn't all that difficult to pull off. Given the Orc predisposition to violence and their inbuilt animosity towards other Orcs, it's fairly easy to get Orcs fighting each other, or even fighting the forces of Chaos. Both Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K story lines have seen this pulled off effectively, and it's slightly easier to do so in Warhammer Fantasy, when Humanity aren't a bunch of murderous xenophobes in a war-torn galaxy of endless carnage and suffering.

But the Orc Bard isn't "Orcs as Allies" but rather, not only "Orcs as Heroes" but also "Orcs as Good." HQ, and Warhammer in general, has long taken part in a rather diverse idea of what counts as being a Hero, hence why Norscan Barbarians are classed as Heroes, despite being little more than murder hobos. WHQ even went full circle with this, as you can get Chaos Warriors and Ogre Mercenaries in the party, should you be wanting to do so. So, the "Orcs as Heroes" motif is more than doable.

The problem is that "Orcs as Good" is pretty much a non-starter. Orcs don't play with others very well, and it takes a strong arm and a stronger will to get Orcs to cooperate with anyone. Even Orc Shamans are mistrusted, and that's without their heads exploding if too many Orcs run past them at the same time. There's NONE of that with the Orc Bard as conceptualised. The Orc Bard not only throws out all established Orc lore in Warhammer, but also all established Orc lore in HQ, which puts NuHQ in direct conflict with the ideal of being a reprinted version of HQ. All this is doing is showing how little thought has gone into keeping HQ consistent, even within its own product scope, by the brand owners.

[Kurgan]

I didn’t know that a quest pack for the orc bard is actually confirmed?!?

I thought it was just that the author of the Spirit Queens Torment pack has said that one of its themes will be “orcs as allies”. Also the cover art shows the souls/ghosts of orcs floating around the Spirit Queen, with the artist has depicted them much more sympathetically than anything consistent with actual Heroquest. The orcs have long flowing hair and are pretty handsome looking. The designers are obviously trying to reinvent them as being much more “human”.
Couple all that with the dumb Orc pirate bard, and we arrive haltingly at the theory that this bard might feature strongly in the pack itself. Meaning that the pack could be a non-starter for all the fans who dislike the bard and/or the new conceptualisation of orcs in general. We are used to tweaking and rewriting official Heroquest where necessary and actually enjoy doing it, but if the whole premise is to too entangled in a ludicrous concept, we won’t be able to save this one.
Given that we’ve been waiting patiently for like 30 years for new material, it’s all a bit of a waste and a shame.

It's logical speculation but until we get something more official on it, I think it has to remain that. It would be a crying shame of these new Heroes got their own "quest packs" before the Dwarf and Wizard!

These are not the Orcs you remember, but a more noble version, highly intelligent, but misunderstood and maltreated by society... known as the Dark Mountain Orcs, or "D'Orcs" for short...

But seriously, I would like more info too.

I wonder what's harder, to create something new from scratch, or fix up a previously released set of material? Hasbro, work on securing the rights to republish EQP/BQP version 2, ATOH, Dark Company, WOM, the Dave Morris quests, Marvel Winter Special's Revenge of the Weather Man, etc.