Shadzar wrote:Well let's just delete this entire thread since this is neither the place to discuss things about HASBRO/Avalon Hill. Let's just delete the entire website since it isnt the IP owner, and then we can all just converse on the Avalon Hill website instead.I can be extremely hyperbolic too.
I dont. I am not interested in a bastardized game wearing a D&D skinsuit. WotC has never made D&D now am i interest in the fake D&D. This is an HQ website, so lets keep the D&D crap and modern ideologies out of it... which is the key to the HQ 2020 debacle.
I agree they are two separate games. Several people here are fearful of encroachment by one upon the other and quality will suffer. We don't have much upon which to base those fears, other than the fact that some of the new staff designers have worked on D&D in the past, and accusations that they essentially put their own favorite user characters as "heroes" in the bonus unlocks. Until we see the content of the new quest packs, it's speculation, but yes they have HINTED that they are going to flesh out Orc history, and that has people (including myself) questioning what that will be and if it won't, in fact, "suck."
They're still using d6. The board is the same. The Hero stats are the same. The card categories are the same. Even the sample spells (from the new heroes only) have similar rules and conventions (except the "regain spell" thing, which only certain rare artifacts could do similar... such as using a spell twice in a single quest, or accumulating spell scrolls).
Nearly double the minis for half the price of 2 sets. and you get variants. I paid $50 for the extra minis, not just KK or RotWL. The quests are meaning less, as anyone can make there own, and have for 30 years. Only the new players who have never experienced HQ will have any real use for them, as many people have them already and played through them and can even before it releases since they are all free on HASBRO "rules" website.
I agree with you about preserving the "legacy" of classic Hero Quest for future generations with this new remake. You're right about the "bargain bin" of miniatures and the bottomless quest book which is the essence of Hero Quest. However where the quality is concerned, I dislike the weapon designs on several of the figures, and the Goblins look like they don't belong at all (similar to the Warlock figure). I don't particularly care for the World of Warcraft style of Orc, but it's one of the parts I dislike the least. I like that the female Barbarians and Dwarves look different, but the way they made the Elf and Wizard nearly identical seems off to me (and lazy, like they just shrank certain body parts and grew others in the 3d program).
The story being more important is a point well taken, but as far as story goes, they seem to have been pretty faithful so far, other than some unfortunate word substitutions (provoked, we presume from rights issues).
https://consumercare.hasbro.com/en-us/instructions?q=%2Fen-us%2Finstructions%2F&q=Hero+Quest&hsb_doc_search_button=SEARCH
To go back to the D&D, there is things called edition wars. This didnt exist much in HQ, because they were versions and not often did people get confused with NA/EU playing unless they physically moved from country to country to had to play a different country's version. D&D changes cause edition wars, those who will buy new product and those who dont. Those WotC has "thrown in the trash" as customers, and "those they want to try to get" as new customers.
I'm not sure how much time went between D&D editions, but HeroQuest for most people was just one thing (unless like you say, they moved continents) for three decades. It will just be "the original" and "the new one" and the gameplay is the same. That to me shows they are more alike than these versions where the rules are actually different (correct me if I'm wrong, I've read about how the classes and character races or whatever have been changed around drastically over the years).
"Hey I'm playing as the Bard tonight at Steve's" "Oh, so you are playing the new version" "No, yo, I'm was at Ye Olde Inn and they showed me how to create this guy for the original and he's way better now" "Okay, cool, I'll bring my banana."
HQ doesnt need that crap, mentality or attitude.
I agree. If it were up to me I'd have wanted a full GW compliant remake, with all of the expansions, that incorporated the material from all the local variants (maybe not the cardboard minis, sorry Brazil). Better even than that, how about a straight up reprint of the original in each locality (so the Brits get Morcar, the Japanese get Grimdead, and the Yanks and Canucks get Zargon, etc). But surely trademarks and copyrights would have prevented something like that (collectors can breath a sigh of relief)>
HQ is a game system with a few examples of play in the quest book. Then from there people can do what they want, which is explained in the rules when the quests run out. The problem again is like "D" says there, are they willing to make HQ and understand it? Whatever they do with the core game will temper the attitudes and minds of EVERYONE on either side of the political ideology spectrum.
Agreed. I can try to imagine scenarios where that would come up. If they said "Undead and Greenskins never fight on the same side" that would limit people who want to do that in their quests ("ehhhh... let's just cross out that sentence with my little red pencil here... done!"). They might make so many little changes that it would be a nightmare to play in the classic style. But I don't see that happening. I hope not anyway. It seems like they put minimal effort into this remake. They took minatures, many of which would have been perfectly at home in some totally different gaming environment (like Wizkidz Pathfinder, etc) and their effort was all on the coat of paint, with the text going through "find and replace" to change "Chaos" to "Dread" and "Fimir" to "Abomination" (much like "Morcar" was changed to "Zargon" and "eliminated" was change to "killed" and "passage" changed to "corridor" in the NA version).
This is uncalled for from HASBRO. They can produce the game, then make expansions for those who want them.
Agreed, but we are presuming the game is going to be sold beyond the fundraiser premiere, right? So what happens to all those unlocks? I would be all for making them seperate from the base product. I presume buying the "Heroic" set would exclude them automatically. And if they are making the female Heroes (and the male elf) "pulse exclusives" that implies a shop isn't going to carry them by default but just what's in the box.
I don't want to pay more for content that sucks. I guess saving me having to SEE it sitting there in the same package with the stuff I actually wanted seems annoying and wasteful, which is another reason I was trying to come up with creative uses for it, besides a chewtoy for the pooch, or something to weight down the garbage sack.
Orc Bard mess seems to be a expansion that they jsut weren't willing to sell in retail stores. It doesnt add new minis other than what is needed in the base game (as far as we know), so should have been an add-on. Technically it is, but this coming with the base game will set a precedent.
But it doesn't come with the Game System (Heroic) it comes with the Mythic (GS + KK & ROTWL). How that plays out if/when it reaches retail stores, is anyone's guess.
Well the book doesn't even include wheelchairs, but only "wheelchair access" in a dungeon...
How considerate! I'd just have them roll to see if they can lift their comrade over the step. Or better yet, use "heal body" to give them the ability to walk again.
There is nothing in the base game that doesn't allow people to change it, but the "forced changes" from forced ideologies, and anyone that disagrees has "wrong think", is the problem form these agendas pushers. people want HQ, not agendas. HQ isnt the place to "discuss your feelings about ethics and morals". HQ is a place where you "kill the bad monsters and save the world". None of this "Orcs are black people" critical race theory crap, because ORCS ARENT REAL. ORCS ARE FICTIONAL MADE UP CHARACTERS FOR THE GAME. The are symbols of fear, not a real world organization or people.
I never saw "Bright" but apparently it was poorly done. Agreed with the agenda pushing. Please, no more forum wars... you're preaching to the choir!
that lack of info is the problem, combined with recent events in D&D.
I agree, the fear is not coming from nowhere. Hopefully our fears in this case are unfounded. And the vocal complaints might make them think twice about committing to that path, since the same company owns both and COULD go there if they wanted to. Again hopefully not.
So it isnt about can old players keep playing the old rules, of course they can. Can new players play the old rules? of course they can even without owning the game since HASBRO has been providing them freely for years.
Which is great. If HeroQuest lapsed into a generic "dungeon game" with no name out of copyright, that would be kind of sad, but we'd build it up again into the thing we all remember and love. I'd rather it was shown proper love and respect by the people who own it now, agreed. I want a game I can be proud of, rather than have to apologize for.
The problem is how will the 2 games co-exist. will they be compatible across the NA market, or will they end up being competitive, and making the players have to fight over which edition to play.
"Steve, you may have called us together, and you may be using the 2021 edition, but we're playing by 1990 rules or I'm flipping this here table!"
"But guys... I just wanted to play as the Orc Bard!"
"there, there, don't cry, Ye Olde Inn has supplied us with some alternate rules that makes him kind of not suck, this guy Kurgan for example turned him into a former pirate turned cleric, crazy weirdo I know, but he did have one good idea there."
"Sniff, really? That's awesome, let's play!"
Again cant do anything for EU and other countries, because that is something HASBRO mucked up with this release being only NA modified rules. and those modifications we dont know about. "Orcs are misunderstood in the core game to support the bonus Orc Bard 'hero'." that could shake the foundations of the core game.
I'm glad it's being released in those territories, but I'm disappointed on their behalf that no effort is being made to "localize" it in that way. Instead, everybody is getting a hybrid version that uses the NA version as a base.
I am imaging the kids who grew up with Hulk Hogan being the bad guy, who didn't know he was once one of the biggest baby faces in the wrestling business, arguing with the truly old school fans who knew he was just going back to his roots. Imagine the shock and horror when it changed. But that's a different business, that thrives on swerves and swindles, I guess.
Silence. That is the problem. People are expressing their fears about the changes since HASBRO will say NOTHING other than what is present on the campaign's page, and the information stopped being produced on the announcement page (https://heroquest.avalonhill.com/en-us) as the marketing agency (https://twitter.com/heroquest/status/1324756678735253508 Khoros Marketing https://khoros.com/) just quit providing any and Pulse never gives any info on products through it until they start arriving at people's doors and word of mouth is how people learn info on the products from HASLabs/Pulse.
That could mean they are embarrassed by the changes and don't want to let us know about them until it's too late. Or it could mean there's nothing to talk about. Or it could mean they haven't really decided yet. But if they were going on board with the Woke brigade, surely they would be "proud" of their decision and would be "virtue signalling" to the public what those changes were, if they existed. But who knows what's really going on. I agree, the "fears" could be settled by just hashing it out with some text, much like they did for the three "new" Heroes, publishing the text content of those cards and design philosophy on their blog page.
People only have recent events for D&D to go on, since most of the "guest designers" are from the modern D&D crowd, and the producer/etc video seems like the 3 people answering the Q&A knew little and cared even less about HQ or what they were going to do to/with it.
Agreed. It's nothing against the fans who are expressing fears. It would be good of the company to be transparent about it. I guess they are under no obligation, but it is up to somebody to bite the bullet, take one for the team, and "unbox" their product before the rest of the buyers are disappointed.
Did you hear that? You have like 90 days to return the "unopened" box for a refund. So even if you bought the game through the pledge drive, and you are fearful now of crappy changes, wait until there's an unboxing video that shows the content.
Should I volunteer myself? With my luck, I'd probably be the last person on earth to receive my package and by then it will be too late. I have been honestly thinking about gifting it to a friend who doesn't have Hero Quest, these past few months, but haven't promised anything yet.
Edit: the thread is here to volunteer to help "unbox" and evaluate the new game...



























