Heroquest remake by Hasbro - The BIG discussion thread

[Kurgan]

And to be fair, many HQ players are going to miss the connection. The maps only appeared in the EU version of ROTWL, a novel (never saw this in the USA) and the Japanese version of the game. Other than Chaos Warriors and Fimirs triggering thoughts of Warhammer fantasy, the average player probably had no idea. As one who grew up with the NA version, I really didn't know it until I started frequenting these forums in the 2000's.

Not that the background isn't cool. The smartest thing would be to keep quiet about it rather than re-doing it, unless they have something really super cool planned.

How upset would people be if Remake Hero Quest was set in the D&D world? Just kidding... I have no idea what they'll do.

[Davane]

I forgot to edit that post when I realised that it could easily be misunderstood that I was saying Hasbro could keep everything the same as the classic game, especially by those who haven’t read my previous posts. Obviously they had to make some changes.
My view is that they are going to trash the original feel of the game, and have already gone further than just a few name changes (that everyone would have understood and accepted). I had a sinking feeling when I saw the very first video, when it became clear that those marketing men had no real passion for the game and had probably never played it as kids. That feeling grew worse when we finally saw what the new designers were up to with their D&D angle. Ridiculous orc bards etc. It’s clear that the designer of the Spirit Queen expansion had never really played HQ either, given that his intro shows a clear lack of knowledge of Wizards of Morcar and Grawshak the orc shaman. The box cover artwork, which was a big reason why we loved the game in the first place, has also regressed and shows a lack of love/understanding.

I’m not as sure as you that the new quests will be so easy to convert back into the world that we know and love. Hopefully it can be done easily, but if they make orc bards and misunderstood orc allies fundamental to the entire pack, it won’t be coherent with anything previously released.

I don't know about trashing the original feel of the game. HQ was always pretty simple, and having grown up to see how both AHQ and WHQ have improved on the genre, it's hard to say that there was ever much of a classic feeling for HQ to be trashed in the first place. The classic HQ vibe was always going to be the Warhammer World, and without that, HQ is a very simple board game set in a generic fantasy setting.

The concern with the D&D angle is quite similar - D&D itself WAS a very generic fantasy setting, but D&D has evolved away from this kind of approach in later editions. D&D has also evolved over time, much more than the Warhammer World ever has, and some of the modernity of D&D can seem at odds with HQ, rooted in the past of the Warhammer World like it is.

The issue is that HQ IS a classic - it's appeal comes from being a very simple, very generic board game where the whole point is basically to solve quests, explore dungeons, and kill monsters. I think that the newer designers might be forgetting this - they want to create complex heroes and complex characters, that really don't translate well into the simplicity of the HQ world, be it in terms of game mechanics, world lore, or character backstory. This is because they've grown up seeing the evolution of the Warhammer World, D&D, and video games, which have all evolved beyond the timeless classic of HQ.

It's going to take a skilled designer to understand the simplicity and charm of HQ, and balance that with the desires of modern gamers. However, I don't doubt that people here will be up to the task of simplifying overly complex NuHQ adventures that might not necessarily fit. As for Orc Bards and Orc allies - we can always add a new race for them. After all, what you get if Orcs stop being monsters, are basically ugly barbarians/shamans, and the Norscans aren't wholly corrupted by Chaos just yet...

I'm inclined to wait and see what Hasbro are going to do with NuHQ. Once we know what we are dealing with, then we can know for certain what does, and doesn't, need to be fixed...

[Kurgan]

I'm just not really sure HOW at this point they could screw up the gameplay. Assuming the aren't flat out misleading us with all the "preliminary not necessarily final" digital concepts... though I have to say, it is odd that they used the Potion of Healing text from the EU instead of the NA version. Then again I did something similar with my first "De-magicified" mod, where I copied the text from the EU cards instead of the NA cards.... no wonder it was so odd to play them that first time!

But we see the board is the same... the dice faces are the same... the stats of the heroes are the same... the monster distributions are the same (though they didn't show us the stats). About everything you could be shown, other than the art style and a few name substitutions, seems the same as either the NA or the EU version. They mentioned a few items specific to the EU version would be dropped into the NA version. Making the Potion of Speed and Holy Water into "Equipment" rubs me the wrong way, but that's an easy fix, to drop them into the treasure deck (and either hide it behind the GM screen, or print up an extra "cardback" or two to conceal the fact you're about to draw one of them when searching (I sleeve my cards and that's how I started out, making alternate backs or faces for the cards by slipping in an extra strip of paper).

Sure, they could have changed around all the quests, but they claimed they were only making "minor" revisions and rule clarifications. Assuming they're not lying, what would they screw up?

The way the Artifacts work? In the end though, if they did something really weird like "You can only carry two artifacts at a time" or "you cannot combine two different types of swords" or "the wizard can wear a helmet" all we players would do is "ignore" that rule and just play it the "real" way we all know. Will there be a rule saying only female characters can attack each other or something? I'd just ignore that hypothetical "rule." Already someone who wanted to play this using the "EU" rules could do that, the only thing would be remembering to ignore the specific text on some of the spell and equipment cards. Anything in the rule book can be dispensed with. When you're playing you need never utter the word "dread" and nothing will change.

Yes, it would be kind of weird if they included a 10 page "introduction" that said this all took place in the 1970's on a planet made of cotton candy on the back of a giant stay-puft marshmallow rabbit. I'm just trying to imagine how they could goof it up. Maybe Mentor and Zargon were twin brothers? Or former lovers? Maybe they're the same guy ("The first rule of Hero Quest is that you don't talk about Hero Quest...")! Maybe the Orcs are made of fungus and the goblins are made of snot...? Again, it's all to do with the backstory here, not the gameplay. What if they got rid of rolling to move? Doubtful since we still have the red movement dice. Would the Heroes ONLY move diagonally? Maybe you have to yell "JUMANJI!" when hitting the stairs to win... I dunno.

We know they're not using D&D style dice... there's nothing about a series of source books... no alignment charts, so what would they do? The goofiest stuff we've heard about is all in the "unlocks" which half the people who bought this will never even see, and for all we know don't even factor into the first 24 quests (only the two expansion booklets which are "unlocks").

If the new Heroes were each given a solo quest that introduces them and has a little backstory to it, that wouldn't be terrible, and the purists would just skip it anyway and use any new assets as filler for their own original adventures. Oh, who is the Orc captain who takes and dishes out a few extra hits before going down? This guy *places bard figure on the board." That Mentor figure is going to be used as Zargon for the final battle, or at least a moment where he appears, taunts the Heroes, and leads into the next big series of quests...



So any bad fan-fiction written in between that will be considered "canon" by Hasbro can be ignored unless somehow they find a way to weave it into the very fiber of the quests, but that would seem like a lot of extra work for what is essentially a new coat of paint on an old game. I'm trying to stay positive here, but I really don't see how they could screw up the actual GAME PLAY. So if in this version they say the dagger costs 80 gold, I'll just pretend it says "25," again but I don't imagine they would do that. If they print a goofy new map we've never seen before on the back cover of the quest book, that isn't going to ruin my day. But then again, the NA version didn't have any maps, period. Until I saw the EU version on these forums, I had no real clue it was supposed to be "almost the same" world. But I could see for an EU fan that might seem like some kind of betrayal, sort of like my seeing Zargon = Mentor. They just better not kill off Sir Ragnar as a traitor...

[Davane]

Maybe the Orcs are made of fungus and the goblins are made of snot...?

Um, actually...

If they print a goofy new map we've never seen before on the back cover of the quest book, that isn't going to ruin my day. But then again, the NA version didn't have any maps, period. Until I saw the EU version on these forums, I had no real clue it was supposed to be "almost the same" world.

Technically, HQ isn't "almost the same" world - it IS the same world. The setting for HQ was GW's Warhammer World, which is part of the problem. MB (Hasbro) had (has) ownership of the HQ brand, but GW had/has ownership of the Warhammer World in which HQ was set.

I still find it funny that the NA version of HQ has become the most popular, when it has clearly been brutally divorced from the Warhammer World and bastardised from its roots with GW and the EU version of the game. There are many differences between the UK and NA versions, some of which can be considered improvements.

This isn't betraying fans of the EU version of HQ. It's reopening the wound from when GW and MB stopped collaborating.

HQ was special for many people, and I think everyone on these forums can relate to the enjoyment they had from HQ, which is why they want to preserve it. Unfortunately, for those in the UK, HQ isn't HQ without GW's Warhammer World, and virtually everyone who knew about HQ also knows about GW, which is another UK Institution for gaming over here.

The ideal scenario for fans in the UK would be for Hasbro and GW to collab on a new version, or for GW to buy the rights to HQ from Hasbro. It's never going to happen, and this is the next best thing, but it still reminds UK fans of the pain of the history of HQ.

Let's face it, many Brits have a massive inferiority complex as our light fades from the world stage in favour of Americanism. We are reminded of it constantly as the UK fears becoming little more than the next state of the USA. We live in a world where our Language, English, is globally dominant, yet the most common dialect is US English, and a lot of companies don't even bother to localise for the US and the UK separately. It's happening in a lot of areas of our society, and it's happening with HeroQuest too.

Hasbro are going to rerelease the NA version of HQ, divorced from the Warhammer World, and a new generation of people are going to get to experience HQ themselves. This is good. But they will also do so without even knowing that HQ was founded in GW's Warhammer World. They won't know the soul of HQ, because it will have to be either ripped out or lampshaded, and that is bad.

Hasbro can't really screw up the HeroQuest game mechanics, but they are putting the final nail into the coffin of the soul of the HeroQuest setting. Hasbro may have the right to do that, but that doesn't mean that it's not going to hurt for every UK fan who will look at Abominations and know that there were Fimirs, and WHY they were Fimirs. To know that Chaos was the ultimate big bad force that wanted to destroy reality, and wasn't just something scary. To know that Chaos Warrior is shorthand for Warrior of Chaos, and Warrior of Dread just doesn't have that same sense of foreboding...

Hasbro are going to make the NA version THE global version of HQ, and the UK version will simply be forgotten, written out of existence, almost... because then all the ugliness with GW goes away, as HQ becomes a soulless game without a setting...

[Kurgan]

I changed my mind. Rule Bretonnia!


Until we get more information on this thing, we can't say to what extent it's good or bad. Either way, I'm sure the fans will let their voices be heard.

Otherwise the first quest will open with the forces of Chaos overthrowing the pretenders in their bid for domination of ye olde world...

[Davane]

I changed my mind. Rule Bretonnia!

Don't you mean Albion?

[Kurgan]

No I think I mean Bretonnia!

[Davane]

No I think I mean Bretonnia!

Albion represents the Britain in the Warhammer World, and Bretonnia represents France...

We all know that the original draft of HQ was carved in original Ogham Stone, right? Built on the shoulders of giants, HQ was - literally, the giants of Albion! Among the mists and rains of that sacred isle. That's why there's no giants, only ogres - one of the solemn vows that were made as part of the pact to bring this gift of the gods themselves to earthly men and women...

Damn fangled newcomers, not knowing their HQ history!

[Kurgan]

So many problems with that... first off, there is no single unified Hero Quest "canon." The only statements about the relationship to the "Warhammer olde world" in any Hero Quest publication are that it is only " loosely based" (not identical). Next, even the Warhammer "world" is clearly inspired by many different things. Why are there druids wandering around marshes in what otherwise appears to be a post-Western Roman Empire collapse redrawing of Europe (is that supposed to be the 9th century "Holy Roman Empire"? And the fantasy elements don't even match the "lore" of Europe very well. The Warhammer world (and the Hero Quest world loosely based upon it) has as much to do with earth history as Tolkien's "Middle Earth." Call it "another dimension" if you want.

Damn fangled newcomers, not knowing their HQ history!

*Checks forum join date.* Welcome to the forums, greenhorn! I was on your side and now you're trying to tease me? So did you first play the game in '89, instead of '90 like I did? Congratulations, and I don't care...

But all kidding aside... there are no world maps in the NA version. The "Japanese" inspired islands in their localization don't match the Warhammer version, etc. etc.

And I will sing "Rule Bretonnia" not "Rule Albion"!

[Davane]

So many problems with that... first off, there is no single unified Hero Quest "canon." The only statements about the relationship to the "Warhammer olde world" in any Hero Quest publication are that it is only " loosely based" (not identical). Next, even the Warhammer "world" is clearly inspired by many different things. Why are there druids wandering around marshes in what otherwise appears to be a post-Western Roman Empire collapse redrawing of Europe (is that supposed to be the 9th century "Holy Roman Empire"? And the fantasy elements don't even match the "lore" of Europe very well. The Warhammer world (and the Hero Quest world loosely based upon it) has as much to do with earth history as Tolkien's "Middle Earth." Call it "another dimension" if you want.

Damn fangled newcomers, not knowing their HQ history!

*Checks forum join date.* Welcome to the forums, greenhorn! I was on your side and now you're trying to tease me? So did you first play the game in '89, instead of '90 like I did? Congratulations, and I don't care...

But all kidding aside... there are no world maps in the NA version. The "Japanese" inspired islands in their localization don't match the Warhammer version, etc. etc.

And I will sing "Rule Bretonnia" not "Rule Albion"!

As a matter of fact, I DID play HQ in '89 when it was first released in the UK. I was 8... and I've been coming here to the Inn longer than I have posted...

Seriously though, there's no world maps in the NA version because MB didn't have the rights to use them. Back in the old days, companies rarely released global content themselves, but instead preferred to license them out to foreign publishers/distributors. In this case, MB handled US distribution, and GW handled UK distribution. The exact details of the collaboration between GW and MB are somewhat obscure, but when MB published HQ in the NA, they went with a landscape format, rather than the portrait format, so the Old World Map on the back of the RotWL Quest Book was replaced. Even if MB could use the Old World Map, it would have not suited the back of the Quest Book.

You say no official source ties HQ to the Warhammer World (which was only the Old World at that time), yet the game material and and advertising copy are replete with references regarding the Emperor and the Empire, as well as other product identity of GW.

Also, I found this, coming from this topic. Some seem to argue that Morcar and Morkar are the same person, others do not.

I think, in terms of a unified canon for HQ, the world and setting comes from GW, and was a version of the Warhammer World as it was back then. It was based on the same concepts and ideas as the Warhammer World, but when HQ parted from GW, the Warhammer World evolved into the Warhammer World we see today (often referred to as the Oldhammer World, to differentiate it from Age of Sigmar). It's somewhat ironic, and consistent with GW policy, that they would sell the Warhammer license to the Total War franchise, and then decide to ditch the Warhammer World for AoS, only for TW:Warhammer to become one of the most popular installments of the Warhammer franchise, and GW to decide that actually, they will keep the Warhammer World stuff after all...

There's little argument from people about the association of HQ and GW in the UK version. GW weren't some nonsense start-up back then - they were making their own games, and both Warhammer and Warhammer 40K were available back then in some form. GW were also the UK distributors for D&D and other TSR products, and already started establishing their chain of stores, yet as they hadn't yet acquired Citadel Miniatures and decided that they were going all in with Warhammer, GW actually sold a LOT of games in a LOT of genres - both their own products AND as a distributor for companies like TSR to the UK.

Every gamer in the UK knew Games Workshop, and grew up with Games Workshop. They dominated the UK market (and still do, in a sense), because they helped CREATE the UK market.

I want to point out that The Trove has an archive of all the old White Dwarf magazines, including issues 101 to 200 which was released around the time HQ was released in the UK. It is interesting going back through the archive and seeing the evolution of GW from when it was little more than a D&D distributor to the UK, into the global miniature's behemoth is is today. I vaguely remember when GW opened it's first US store, and you can find an excellent history of Games Workshop on Wikipedia.

HeroQuest is listed as a Licensed Game, because of the collab with MB, and it was ultimately MB that owned the rights. However, HQ did use the Warhammer World, as it was back then, and this was what GW added to the collab. They added the soul of HQ, and what you can consider 'canon'.

Just because HQ diverged from the Warhammer World, and many have discovered it outside of GW and Warhammer (which had only a minimal following in the US at the time of HQ), doesn't mean that we should DENY the historical link between the Warhammer World and HQ. The Warhammer World moved on - HQ lay dormant of nearly 30 years. You can't use this as evidence that HQ was set in a "similar, but different" world to the Warhammer World.

That's like hearing of Roman ruins in the middle of the City of London, and then coming to the conclusion that they must be from a "similar, but different" world because they don't match the surrounding modern skyscrapers...

Yes, the Warhammer World is FULL of different inspirations. Did you know that GW also published Warhammer Ancient Battles, a wargame based on Warhammer Fantasy that was used to fight Historical battles? Many of the later concepts in Warhammer would come from WAB, because if there's anything the people at GW loved, it was their history - both the history of the Earth, and the history of wargames, D&D, and board games.

The Warhammer World was created piecemeal, by simply taking inspirations and ideas, and expending on them. It's not supposed to be a copy of our Earth, or even our Europe, but the ideas and periods from history. The Empire is actually supposed to be around the 13th century - a post Dark Ages/early Renaissance Europe. Gunpowder exists as Black Powder but has yet to be refined to be reliable. Think Musketeers/Civil War era. Bretonnia is more 10th century, as it's reminiscent of Normandy and the time of William the Conquerer. It represents Norman Britain, replete with Questing Knights and Robin Hood, but also Charlemagne's Paladins. That's more the HRE. Albion is representative of Celtic Britain, pre Roman occupation. The point is that lore-wise, the Old World represents Europe, but it's cultures come from a mish-mash of time periods, with the assumption that their cultures largely stabilised, and whilst trade brings new ideas, tradition remains strong, largely to do with the underlying magic of the land.

When it comes to whether the UK is represented by Albion, Bretonnia, or the Empire, it all comes down to WHEN in British history you are thinking of. Britain has been invaded by so many tribes and cultures other the millenia, that not on are we a "mongrel culture" of pretty much most of the world, we then went and colonised most of that entire world (alongside the rest of Europe) and spread our "mongrel culture" back to everywhere. Bretonnia represents more of what people seem to think of British history, but bear in mind, the roots are even older than that. You head to the west country, to Wales, Scotland, or even hop across the causeway to Ireland, and you'll find lands steeped in magic and lore - the lands of Albion, of giants, dragons, and druids.

I was being facetious, but when talking about ancient lost histories of HQ, Albion seems much more apt than Bretonnia... so, for me, it's "For Albion!" and "Albion 'til I die!"