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Overview of the Old World

Discuss general topics relating to HeroQuest that don't fit well in the categories below.

Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » March 8th, 2021, 12:33 pm

Pancho wrote:I own a number of Warhammer fantasy armies. Too many, probably.

I loved Heroquest, so it was only natural that I was attracted to the Games Workshop store like a moth to a flame whenever we went into town. We didn’t really do pocket money in our family, but Mum must have been taking notice; one Christmas after we thought we had already opened all the presents, Dad pretended to see something behind the sofa. One more present, in a big box. Warhammer Fantasy Battle, 4th edition, with the incredible picture of the High Elves in ferocious battle with Grom the Paunch’s orc & goblin army on the front cover. Honestly, my eyes bugged out so far I don’t think they’ve ever gone back in to where they were originally.

I didn’t know it at the time, but 4th edition was the first to have starter armies included in the box, and the authors had just completely fleshed out their world for the first time, ready for us to delve into. It was a very strong combination, a game with a fantastic background story and forces ready to start fighting straight away. I was rolling dice for the High Elves on the living room carpet that same day. Looking back on it now, it’s the same combo that floored me with Heroquest 3 or 4 years earlier, a hint of a huge background story but everything included in the box to play a smaller scale adventure right away.

Of course, Warhammer is a lot more customisable/collectible than Heroquest. I moved on from Elves and Goblins to also collect Bretonnians, Undead, Chaos, Dwarves and Dark Elves. I stopped buying GW stuff after 5th edition, for various reasons. But all this talk of Warhammer here at the Inn started up an old itch and I’ve been busy collecting a nice little Empire army over the last month :o
Sigh. I’ll probably end up getting some Wood Elves and Skaven, just so I can say I have every race that had an army book in 4th and 5th edition ( which will always be the golden age for me).


HeroQuest got me into Warhammer.
My dad bought HQ and KK, ROTWL from a box retail store. The main game was from K-Mart, the expansion packs we found at ShopKo. They were the Wal-Marts of their day.
I also got Battlemasters from Toys R us.

We were hooked in a big way my brother, dad, and I.
Here were games that were fun to play and easy to learn, but didn't take a whole evening just to create a character and could be set up, played, and completed in an hour or two; perfect for my dad who bought us basic D&D years earlier but never got into it because of those type of time commitment restraints. I however had been collecting and playing D&D ever since.

Wasn't long before we were looking in the phone book (the world was more quaint pre-internet) for a game store/hobby shop to find more HeroQuest or Battlemasters.
We did find the game store but sadly we didn't find more of either BM or HQ, as the Battlemasters expansions and the HeroQuest expansions we didn't already own were Europe/Australian releases only and I wouldn't find them until many years later as an adult with the magic of the internet. The shop owner confirmed we had all HQ available at the time.

What I did find at the game store was Advanced HeroQuest and a plastic Skeleton Army box. Clearly this was the same intriguing world as HQ but opening and reading the new game, it was a little more D&D roleplay, and having to assemble and paint the skeletons was definitely different from just a pre-complete board game.
My dad was always big into models building cars, ships or planes. I dabbled myself with WWII planes, tanks and a few later military helicopters myself. Painting skeletons with dad was fun. We were still enjoying the games together as a family. Intuitively we knew both were a different style of game than HQ though.

We didn't buy Warrhammer 4th ed. during that first visit but we certainly eyeballed it all over the shelves of the game store, my dad quickly realized it was a hobby unto itself not just a boardgame and drew the line. We headed home with AHQ and a box of skellys.

But it was too late for me, I was hooked and knew that the game store had a lot more to offer in this fantasy setting of the Old World so similar to my beloved LOTR.
Some of my earliest memories were my dad plunking us down on each knee and reading the Hobbit to us. The Rankin Bass Hobbit/ Return of the King cartoons and Bashki's LOTR animated movie from our youth looked just like they had been made into miniatures games to us. We had to have Warhammer too, then we could reinact the battles of Middle Earth.

As a young teen, my meager money usually spent on comic books or action figures prior, now had a new purpose: the game store. And so my Warhammer collecting began in earnest.

A year or two later I was first in line to the register at my now familiar game store when the Elf Quest and Barbarian Quest packs for HQ came out and hit the shelf, I promptly bought two of each as we had already doubled down on HQ,KK, and ROTWL by then so each brother had a set. If only I had cleaned them out buying the remaining two pair right?! I also picked up AHQ Terror in the Dark and AHQ paint Set, and bought Warhammer Quest when they were released. I am certain that I would have missed all of them as so many HeroQuest players did if I hadn't been a game store regular.

By college I had every Warhammer army to at least 2,000 points and was dabbling in 40K as well when the LOTR movies came out. Games Workshop released a tabletop miniatures game for it too. umm ,, I was originally very pleased and bought the first two movies worth of boxed games, but soon realized it lacked the Old World charm and Rankin Bass Hobbit cartoon style of HeroQuest and Warhammer and quickly switched back to my Old World setting products. I collected every edition of WFB from 4th through 8th, then tracked down the earlier versions online.
my Warhammer collection is considerable because I bought it piece by piece when it came out, for many years.
my armies include:
Empire
High Elves
Orcs
Goblins
Dwarves
Dwarf Slayers
Skaven
Undead
Vampire Counts
Tomb Kings
Chaos Warriors
Beastmen
Chaos demons Nurgle
Chaos demons Khorne
Dark Elves
Wood Elves
Bretonnians
Lizardmen and Slann
Dogs of War mercenary army
Ogre Kingdoms
and my custom Barbarian army of the North (Cimmerians and Norse vikings not chaos tainted) and my Halfling regiment.
I never got Chaos Dwarfs, Dwarf Pirates, Kislev, Chaos demon Slaanesh or Chaos demon Tzeentch armies.

It was love of the Old World setting that kept me going, still collecting WH, BM and HQ to this day.
HeroQuest and Battlemasters are nostalgia games for me. My brother and I played them with our dad and our friends as young teens. I still bring them around on holidays for a dinner table dungeon delve or Dining room carpet battle, but now dad is grandpa and we play HQ and BM with our kids too.
Last edited by Cael Darkhollow on March 8th, 2021, 12:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
By Crom I'll split you crown to crotch to see if your guts are yellow as I think they are nithing BARBARIAN Ulrich
The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
Tomes grimoires manuals atlas formularies compendiums codexes bestiaries folios scrolls... Am I missing anything before we leave? WIZARD Eldritch Heironymous KigamMagister
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » March 8th, 2021, 12:51 pm

cornixt wrote:This thread inspired me to take another look at the Warhammer 3rd edition rulebook (it's available online if you are any good at searching and avoiding obvious virus traps). I really think it is the best single place to start to get a good idea about how HQ was placed in the Old World and the many things that weren't included in HQ.

If it was used to write new quests, I don't think your games would be any worse for including the stuff that was dropped/altered in 4th edition. If anything, you might have more depth, since Warhammer was still much more of an "anything goes" game back then rather than the more formal game that it became. A small amount of it is a bit insensitive (I remembered that Half-Orcs weren't well regarded, I hadn't remembered that the writer said that "sensible humans" think they should be enslaved and mistreated simply for having mixed parentage. Jeez, even if they were all evil, and it specifically says that they aren't, that is not something a sensible person should think about any creature.) but there is a little info about a lot of different creatures, and a lot of info about the main ones.

So I'd recommend you seek it out if you want more HQ background.

The human slaves and the Pygmy Ally contingent that the Slann army had were beyond insensitive, they were down right racist in 3rd edition Warhammer Armies book.
I can certainly see why they were abandoned when 4th edition polished up a bit. Slann were almost dropped for 4th too, but remained as singular generals of Lizardmen armies.
Fimir and half orcs were removed too, with their rape of captive humans breeding strategy. fimir/human mating was stated outright while half orc origins strongly implied rape of humans by orcs (who would willingly bed an orc?) was only loosely implicated.

What I can't figure out is why they dropped the zoats found in 3rd edition, no crossing the line not family friendly misbehavior there...although Fimir and Zoats did continue in WH40K for a brief time both as part of the early tyrannids army.

1st edition WH is basically just game mechanics for tabletop battles and they hadn't even nailed down any consistancy with the miniatures look, they were fielding completely custom individual armies. 2nd edition WH corrected a bunch if errors, made it seem more like a game product than a homebrew system, and even threw in a few setting tidbits. But there isn't anything worth having even for a serious Warhammer collector let alone someone coming in from HeroQuest.

3rd edition Warhammer is where it all started really. There is the Old World when HeroQuest was being developed. It still was rough around the edges though, I wonder if HeroQuest and Battlemasters were thought up as a family friendly board game version of the Old World while 3rd WH was intended for adult gamers. None-the-less 4th ed. WH was reimagined as slick family friendly professional out of the box games anyway soon after, much more similar in feel and style to HQ than 3rd. ed.

As the HeroQuest product timeline actually straddled 3rd and 4th edition Warhammer, and Warhammer 5th is so similar to 4th (the golden age of WH as Pancho put it) I feel that 3-5th edition WH is the best fit for HQ in art style and game writing. Or alternate figures. Seek ye Old Worlde lore and materials there.

6-7th edition was a little darker, more serious and the art style changed dramatically including the figures transitioning into the modernized scary or more realistic looks until finally very dark themed WH 8th edition which all are not nearly as cartoony and boardgamey as HeroQuest or earlier WH editions. The lore never really changed much though so setting info on the Old World can be used from any edition really for HQ.
By Crom I'll split you crown to crotch to see if your guts are yellow as I think they are nithing BARBARIAN Ulrich
The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » March 8th, 2021, 11:46 pm

The HQ Elf Quest Pack and quest book The Mage of the Mirror and Barbarian Quest pack The Frozen Horror were released in 1992 (for $15.00 U.S. each compared to $10.50 for KK and ROTWL according to the mail order form in the box.)

I don't know exactly when Milton Bradley stopped collaborating with GamesWorkshop, but I have heard from a few people here on the forum say that the Elf Quest and Barbarian Quest packs were released after the split and somehow that makes HeroQuest no longer based on the Warhammer world setting. They use this false narrative to explain ideas or locales found in those quests but not found in other Warhammer materials as evidence that HQ was now somehow different, an alternate world or timeline, no longer part of the Old World. That simply isn't true.

Both of my Elf and Barbarian quest packs say by Milton Bradley developed with Games Workshop right on the boxes (rear.)

The Elf quest in particular lends confusion to the matter because although the writing still has references to Chaos and the Empire of the Old World setting, it mentions an elven kingdom that seems different than anything described in the Old World.

Nevertheless the miniatures are nearly identical to GW ogres and the Warhammer Wood Elf army figures of the same time period, so much so that I can put my second painted Elf Quest Pack set minis in a wood elf regiment (from a plastic regiment box with a blister pack metal command group) or the elves from the plastic Forces of Fantasy box set and they blend perfectly. They were all likely sculpted at the same time perhaps even by the same person or from the same reference art.

We also know that Battlemasters was released by MB the same year and clearly has Games Workshop on the box and Old World Empire army figures against a Chaos army and Empire locations mentioned throughout.
This means all of HeroQuest was published before the MB/GW collaboration ended sometime after those games were published in 1992.
This makes Advanced HeroQuest published in 1991 but with no Milton Bradley involvement somewhat strange, as it shares the HeroQuest name IP. The White Dwarf magazines published by GamesWorkshop with HQ, AHQ, and Space Crusade (board game version of WH40K) extra quests labeled as Feb. 1991 and Jan. 1992 are a bit of a mystery too, I'm unsure if MB had any involvement or not.

Clearly they were still working with and supporting Milton Bradley games in 1992 but had done Advanced HeroQuest on their own, yet retained the name "HeroQuest."
It really makes me wonder which company did exactly what with HeroQuest. The figures, artwork, setting are all GW, perhaps MB only did the board game style mechanics (but not the art) such as cards, tiles, rules and dice? Even the figure stats seem derivative of Warhammer figure stats though. Was the game design really done by Milton Bradley? Any of it? What exactly did MB do to get their name on the HQ box?
I suspect it had far more to do with distribution and getting the game on shelves in regular stores and toy stores instead of specialty hobby shops rather than any actual game development. That probably was their true business collaboration.

So what about the supposed story discrepancies in those North America only quest packs that don't seem to fit the Old World?

The Elven Kingdom is ruled by Queen Terrellia and her 5 year old daughter (don't elves age drastically different? she could be decades old and still be a youth) has been kidnapped, and it is your mission to rescue her. The queens sister Archmage Sinestra has issued a ransom note demanding her sister abdicate the throne. Sinestra's stronghold location was not mentioned but we can assume if she means to rule we are still in the Elven Kingdom or at least nearby. The quest book states that should Sinestra rule the safety of the Empire is also at stake. It also implies that the Empire and Elves are allies against Zargon and the forces of Chaos. That would mean the Elf Realm has significant dealings or influence with the Empire and is close geographically.

The first quest is to recover a stolen artifact in a small fortress along the southern border of the Empire. As the southern edge of the Empire is the Black mountains home to Goblins, monsters as well as dwarf strongholds it could be there in the Black mtns or it could be farther south in the Warhammer region known as the Border Princes. Perhaps the people of the Empire sees the mountains as the border, forgetting or overlooking the other races' territorial claims in those mountains.

the second rescue mission is south of the Elven Kingdom. The third another rescue from a mine not given locale description.
The 4th mission is an alchemists laboratory on the western border of the elven lands. the 5th another rescue to the south of elven lands at a castle.
We finally learn Sinestra's stronghold location is within the marshes of Gliness Fen. Are we in the elven Kingdom? Nearby?
What kingdom would that be?
In Warhammer the wood elves have the realm of Athel Loren, a vast woodland within the borders of the Kingdom of Bretonnia (but autonomous) across the Grey mountains from the Empire.
But the elven king and queen are Orion and Ariel, who are worshipped as living avatars of the deities Kurnous and Isha.

Another enclave of wood elves exists inside the borders of the Empire itself, the Laurelorn Forest. Did the HeroQuest quest pack occur there in that independent elven realm not ruled by Bretonnia, the Empire or the elf King and Queen of Athel Loren?
Little is written about the elves living in the northeastern Laurelorn forest of the Empire, beyond WFRP stating they repel all intruders and are the source of elvish player characters in the Empire. Is the Queen Terrellia of HQ their ruler? This would put the rescues to the south and west in the Grey mountains perhaps. Suitible locations and the likely sites of other HeroQuest quests.

Final possibilities would be the High Elf merchant colony at Marienburg (independent merchant city state between Bretonnia and the Empire, and surrounded by marshes, with a Netherlands lowland real World equivilant,) or even the Elven Kingdoms of Ulthuan on their island in the western sea, ruled by the Phoenix King. Both not very likely as High elves do not look like wood elves in both appearance and equipment and whose rulers are differently named.

Laurelorn inside the Empire is the best fit for the HQ Elf Quest Pack "Elven Kingdom."

All of these Old World elves of course are Games Workshop's imitations of Tolkien's elves of the 3rd age of Middle Earth: the forests of Loren=Lorien, Celeborn and Galadriel=Orion and Ariel, the Laurelorn Forest=Greenwood/Mirkwood, High elf colony at Marianburg=the sea elves of the Grey Havens, the High Elvish home isles of Ulthuan=Eldamar, and the isle of the dead at the center of the inner sea of Ulthuan=Tol Eressëa the isle at the center of the bay in Eldamar. The only 3rd age elven location not represented in the GW Old World is Rivendell.

The Barbarian homelands of the North has both Old World and literary equivalents as well. From the questbook, Xanon Pass, the only pass in the Cyberian Range leads to Ice Mountain, the locale of the quests. The barbarian hales from the Northlands. This range, pass and mountain are not named on the maps of the Old World.
Another HeroQuest map found in The Tyrants Tomb novel, gives more "Northlands" locales not named on any Warhammer map for another homecoming to Norscan forests by the barbarian character in HQ, (and a quest there, A Growl of Thunder) but this Northlands map is framed to the east by the Worlds Edge Mountains, to the north by the Northern Chaos Wastes, and to the south by the Sea of Claws; large geographic features indeed found on most Warhammer old world maps. The names of the towns, hamlets and villages listed that are not repeated in Warhammer on WH maps are immaterial. Likewise how many unnamed ranges or peaks are there, only named perhaps by the locals who live near?There are no detailed maps of the far north in any Games Workshop product, besides such barbarian villages are likely beneath the notice of scholarly cartographers from the Empire.

A few locales of interest on the map in the Tyrants Tomb novel are Dargvellig Voy (the isles of the Fimir), Ymirheim, the Norscan Steppes, and Le Massif Des Geants. No mountain ranges or peaks are mapped except for the Worlds Edge Mountains, so the exact location of Xanon Pass, the Cyberian range, the Barbarian's home village and the peak named Ice Mountain, lair of the Frozen Horror remain unknown.
A great many unnamed ranges and mountains are shown on many maps of Norsca (also called the Northlands) in the various Chaos army books and boxed set of Warhammer. Its location across the Sea of Claws confirms the HQ Barbarian Quest Pack's general location in the Old World. The Northlands are described as frigid wastes with a few settlements and roving barbarian tribes. Nothing in either quest pack contradicts anything in Warhammer or the Old World setting. New monsters such as polar warbears don't conflict either, Warhammer materials routinely generated new monsters often with each new army book or suppliment including gnoblars, Rhinoxen etc. often not found outside a single source book, or others mentioned a few times then never heard from again such as fimir and zoats.

Les Edwards art for the barbarian character in HQ is directly inspired by Frank Frazettas art depicting Conan the Barbarian, a Robert E Howard literary character. They are the same or at least twin brothers, or at a minimum certainly of the same race of northerner barbarians. Conans homeland to the north of the civilized nations is named Cimmeria, too similar to the Cyberian range not to notice. Perhaps Siberia in the real world is the influence, although Russia is represented by the Kislev nation to the east and south. Ymir is a god of the north in Howard's Hyboria tales of Conan, the Ymirheim found on the HQ map would be literally translated as Ymir's home. The massif des geants would be translated the mountain stronghold of giants, and a similar name to the Masif Orcal a mountain stronghold located farther south in the old world. Perhaps the Maddif des Geants was inspired by Tolkien's Helcaraxë, the grinding ice also known as the icy wastes mentioned in the Silmarillion.
By Crom I'll split you crown to crotch to see if your guts are yellow as I think they are nithing BARBARIAN Ulrich
The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby cornixt » March 9th, 2021, 11:18 am

Cael Darkhollow wrote:The human slaves and the Pygmy Ally contingent that the Slann army had were beyond insensitive, they were down right racist in 3rd edition Warhammer Armies book.
I was trying to avoid triggering the PC-sensitive forum members who get outraged at the smallest things. We'd already discussed the pygmies and fimirs recently, so I didn't think those were worth bringing up again. But the book distills everything about the Warhammer world into one place at the time HQ was created, before it was more regimented into formal siloed armies, even if it seems that at least one racist got his twisted ideology in there and got it through the editing. I don't remember anything even close to that in later books, even about daemons. Not something that is going to be reprinted intact - what happened with the reprints of the two Chaos books? I remember hearing about them but don't recall them actually coming out.


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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » March 9th, 2021, 1:03 pm

cornixt wrote:
Cael Darkhollow wrote:The human slaves and the Pygmy Ally contingent that the Slann army had were beyond insensitive, they were down right racist in 3rd edition Warhammer Armies book.
I was trying to avoid triggering the PC-sensitive forum members who get outraged at the smallest things. We'd already discussed the pygmies and fimirs recently, so I didn't think those were worth bringing up again. But the book distills everything about the Warhammer world into one place at the time HQ was created, before it was more regimented into formal siloed armies, even if it seems that at least one racist got his twisted ideology in there and got it through the editing. I don't remember anything even close to that in later books, even about daemons. Not something that is going to be reprinted intact - what happened with the reprints of the two Chaos books? I remember hearing about them but don't recall them actually coming out.

yes the reprints of both realms of Chaos books came out. unfortunately they went quick, so now pricing is insane again.
3rd edition was still a rough melting pot of ideas so a bunch of weird stuff is still in there, but it was the first in-depth world building for the setting besides some campaign adventure materials for WHFRP.
Lots of interesting tidbits and art crossover to HeroQuest. If 1st edition was just the rules outline, 2nd Edition was the fleshed out rough draft, 3rd edition was the first real try to write comprehensive material for the Old World, but they were still basing it off of early D&D style books as their model. A lot of similarities between early D&D and early Warhammer in tone, grittiness, and audience (for experienced gamers.)

I think 4th edition Warhammer fantasy battles game '93 that came out a year after the last HQ quest packs did in 1992 was a lot more polished and comprehensive, the first box set with miniatures, the first family friendly game version, the first ready to play game in a box. 4th is really the finalized version of the lore and setting that they built upon, edition after edition until it was ended. Other versions didn't reset like the previous 3 did, they just changed hame mechanics from here on out. This is the version that was in development during the tail end of HQ publication.
By Crom I'll split you crown to crotch to see if your guts are yellow as I think they are nithing BARBARIAN Ulrich
The last music you shall ever hear will be my bowstring as your forehead sprouts a feathered shaft, pity ELF Cael Darkhollow
Tomes grimoires manuals atlas formularies compendiums codexes bestiaries folios scrolls... Am I missing anything before we leave? WIZARD Eldritch Heironymous KigamMagister
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Daedalus » March 9th, 2021, 3:15 pm

Cael Darkhollow wrote:. . . Both of my Elf and Barbarian quest packs say by Milton Bradley developed with Games Workshop right on the boxes (rear.) . . .

Interesting take that I've never considered before. Sure, it's possible both of the NA QUEST packs were originally conceived with GW in advance. I had assumed "developed with Games Workshop" referred by agreement automatically to all HQ products related to the Game System (which is also mentioned immediately after on the box.)

Cael Darkhollow wrote:. . . Nevertheless the miniatures are nearly identical to GW ogres and the Warhammer Wood Elf army figures of the same time period, so much so that I can put my second painted Elf Quest Pack set minis in a wood elf regiment (from a plastic regiment box with a blister pack metal command group) or the elves from the plastic Forces of Fantasy box set and they blend perfectly. They were all likely sculpted at the same time perhaps even by the same person or from the same reference art.

It's refreshing to hear someone write positively about how the EQP style agrees with GW wood elves of the time. While the EQP sculptor is unknown, Toco has revealed at his blog that the American artist Don Kuecker designed the EQP elf figure concept art.
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Pancho » March 9th, 2021, 5:03 pm

Interesting idea about the Elven kingdom being in Laurelorn, I.e. inside the Empire. That’s a possibility for sure. We also don’t know when exactly Heroquest takes place in the history of the Old World. It’s not inconceivable that Laurelorn had a Queen at some point, and her name was Terrellia.

I’m with Daedalus in that I also like the comment that the HQ elf models are compatible with wood Elf regiments of the same period. Not ever having the privilege of owning those HQ figures, I went the other way and used Warhammer plastic wood elves as proxies for the Elf quest pack, and they look great.


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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Davane » March 9th, 2021, 7:21 pm

Pancho wrote:Interesting idea about the Elven kingdom being in Laurelorn, I.e. inside the Empire. That’s a possibility for sure. We also don’t know when exactly Heroquest takes place in the history of the Old World. It’s not inconceivable that Laurelorn had a Queen at some point, and her name was Terrellia.

I’m with Daedalus in that I also like the comment that the HQ elf models are compatible with wood Elf regiments of the same period. Not ever having the privilege of owning those HQ figures, I went the other way and used Warhammer plastic wood elves as proxies for the Elf quest pack, and they look great.


To be honest, it doesn't even need to be in the Laurelorn forest. There's wood elf clans hidden throughout the forests of the Empire, and it quite possible that Queen is a title for a Wood Elf clan leader.

Plus, there's always the Border Princes - that's full of self-styled "kings" and "queens", even if their domain consists of three people and a goat...a Wood Elf clan with a "Queen" would certainly be right at home there, but like everything else in that wilderness, unlikely to last very long, especially if a bunch of Mentor's "murder hobos" do some Heroing on them...
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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Pancho » March 10th, 2021, 4:48 am

Davane wrote:
Pancho wrote:Interesting idea about the Elven kingdom being in Laurelorn, I.e. inside the Empire. That’s a possibility for sure. We also don’t know when exactly Heroquest takes place in the history of the Old World. It’s not inconceivable that Laurelorn had a Queen at some point, and her name was Terrellia.

I’m with Daedalus in that I also like the comment that the HQ elf models are compatible with wood Elf regiments of the same period. Not ever having the privilege of owning those HQ figures, I went the other way and used Warhammer plastic wood elves as proxies for the Elf quest pack, and they look great.


To be honest, it doesn't even need to be in the Laurelorn forest. There's wood elf clans hidden throughout the forests of the Empire, and it quite possible that Queen is a title for a Wood Elf clan leader.

Plus, there's always the Border Princes - that's full of self-styled "kings" and "queens", even if their domain consists of three people and a goat...a Wood Elf clan with a "Queen" would certainly be right at home there, but like everything else in that wilderness, unlikely to last very long, especially if a bunch of Mentor's "murder hobos" do some Heroing on them...

I don’t think the Elf pack is set in the Border Princes. The intro story and the quest notes make it clear that we are talking about a proper established kingdom with a long, noble history. Athel Loren, or Laurelorn, would be a much better fit.


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Re: Overview of the Old World

Postby Cael Darkhollow » March 10th, 2021, 1:28 pm

Pancho wrote:Interesting idea about the Elven kingdom being in Laurelorn, I.e. inside the Empire. That’s a possibility for sure. We also don’t know when exactly Heroquest takes place in the history of the Old World. It’s not inconceivable that Laurelorn had a Queen at some point, and her name was Terrellia.


Ah but we DO know when HQ was in the Warhammer timeline, if we make some reasonable (based on the evidence) assumptions.

HQ was written mainly during 3rd edition WH and the earliest 4th edition. 4th WHFB main box set came out on 1992, the same year as the last HQ products: White Dwarf 145 with HQ adventure, and the Elf and Barbarian Quest packs.
4th edition army books then started coming out a year later in 1993.

Okay. So that gives us a definitive "has to be before" date for any HQ publication on the timeline.
The in-game timeline advances based on those WH/HQ publications as well, the current time line for 4th edition WHFB was set as sometime after 2502 on the Imperial calendar, which marked the year of ascension of Karl Franz, the current reining Emperor. So current day for 4th edition would be within a decade of his crowning, let's say 2502-2512 to give him enough time to be the emperor for a bit.

Now HeroQuest obviously mentions "the Empire" throughout so we can establish a concrete "cannot be before" date as Imperial year 50. Sigmar forges the Empire in year 1, then disappears in year 50, the elector counts are established to determine the new emperor.

HQ must occur no earlier than IC 50 but no later than 2501. So now we have 2450 years of Empire timeline in which to figure out when HQ was.

Some emperors and their dates of reign are known eliminating those periods from consideration E.g. 1124-1152 Emperor Manfred. 1053-1115 Emperor Boris Goldgather, etc.
Heinreich 1 ruled 51-100.

the first gap where the rulers are unknown is 101-300 (200 years)
another gap occurs somewhere between 322 and
479 (157 years)
another from early 500s to 677 (170 years give or take)
a final gap from 732-1000 although we have some emperor names in that period. (200ish years)

from 1053-2302 the emperors are known or there is internal strife with multiple known claimants to the throne, clearly not the time of HQ.
after 2302 all the emperors are well known or no gaps exist larger than a decade or two.

If we place HQ in any one of the earlier known gaps it could be anywhere in those missing roughly 727 years. we have just narrowed the 2450 years of the Empire between must be after the IC 50 date and cannot be after date of IC 2501 considerably.
You could comfortably squeeze HQ in any of those four 150-200 year gaps in the early history of the Empire.

But I believe we can narrow further still.
the time period after 2302 to 2501 is well known,
but if we assume that prince Magnus mentioned in HQ is also the Emperor mentioned in HQ, as emperors in Warhammer retain all their previous titles. Then we can actually pin point on the WH timeline exactly when HQ takes place:
Davane wrote:I need to read up on my Warhammer Lore to do this properly (been some time since I used anything deeper than an overview for background purposes), but I'd set it in the earlier part of the Empire, probably shortly after Magnus the Pious becomes Emperor. The Empire is still primitive enough that the events of HQ could have happened, even if they weren't necessarily documented. The Emperor and his army are busy claiming lands and fighting off unusually coordinated greenskin attacks on the borders of the Empire, and at least one of these happens to be near Karak Varn.

Cael Darkhollow wrote:Both Prince Magnus and the Emperor mentioned in HeroQuest are one and the same. :o
AND are the same Emperor Magnus elected in 2304 in the Warhammer world.

In Warhammer, the last current emperor Karl Franz was the Elector Count of Reikland, Prince of Altdorf, and the Emperor of the realm maintaining all titles concurrently.

Prince Magnus from HeroQuest and Warhammer would be the Prince of Nuln, the same individual known as Magnus the Pious, a noble of Nuln, who repelled the largest Chaos invasion known as the Great War against Chaos in 2302-2303 and became Emperor in 2304 as the people demanded it. During his reign he spent much effort to eradicate remaining Chaos warbands throughout his lands, "the servants of Chaos were hunted down in the forests, and many wild and long-abandoned lands were re-settled."


HeroQuest is set in the period right after Magnus of Nuln was elected emperor and then spent his remaining reign trying to eradicate remaining Chaos pockets in his realm.

We know that Emperor Magnus established the colleges of magic during his reign. "Originally established by the High Elf archmage Teclis at the request of Magnus the Pious, in 2304 IC, following the Great War against Chaos and Magnus's ascension to the Imperial throne." This jives with the transition of elemental magic used in 3rd edition Warhammer and HeroQuest to the trained battle magic found in the 8 disciplines taught by the elf wizard Teclis in the colleges, used as the magic system in 4th edition WH on.
We know that the other Milton Bradley game in conjunction with Games Workshop, Battlemasters released in 1992 also has Imperial forces clashing with Chaos armies so fits the cleaning up the great war Chaos remnants of Magnus's reign period as well.

Magnus was emperor from 2304-2369 so the events of HeroQuest and Battlemasters would happen during that 65 year period, but much more likely right after the Chaos war aftermath in the first 20-30 years of his rule while he was still cleaning up the empire, so sometime between the years 2304-2335 on the Imperial Calendar.

This explains somewhat the Emperors desperate plight trapped in Kellars Keep of Karak Varn, the Empire was still reeling from the Great War and defeat of the Chaos Army general in 2303 at Praag, and Chaos forces still roamed the lands.
It also explains the dire peril of the WitchLord's return as the Empire is in ruins and needs to be rebuilt, hardly able to face another strong foe immediately.

The Emperor had only just been recently re-established and stabilized. "Rebuilding of the Empire. Magnus estabishes his court at Nuln."
The aftermath of the war was still a period of great turmoil and danger, his need for heroes and champions was great. His forces were largely depleted from the war, giving him cause to hire Heroes for hire or mercenaries as Prince of Nuln (Prince Magnus gold in HQ) from his personal coffers rather than from the empires depleted resources expended in the war and lawless pretender period prior.
This would explain the HQ wizard using elemental magic as the battle magic was just starting to be taught in 2304 so he likely wouldn't have been able to study it yet.

It gives reason for the HQ Barbarian to head north for a homefaring, the north was just overrun by a Chaos incursion, he wanted to find out the fate of his kin, only to find out there still are chaos threats such as the Frozen Horror to battle.

I believe the events of HeroQuest occur on the Warhammer timeline sometime in the years 2304-2335 some 200 years before the current setting of 4th edition Warhammer.
Last edited by Cael Darkhollow on March 23rd, 2021, 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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