The days of me being a fanboy cultist, if they are not already past me, or numbered. But as to being a geek, nerd, or fan more than the average bear, I certainly qualify. We're a fan community after all and simply being a contributing member here, already puts you in a minority percentage I'm sure. I disagree with all kinds of people here and for them my way is certainly not "the way." I can live with that, but I'm still going to stick up for my point of view.
I did want to say something more (long-winded as usual), I don't have to justify my personal tastes anymore than anyone else, but the big thing that always turned me off about branded wargames is the sheer startup volume and seeming dedication being demanded. It's not that I don't find certain complex games engaging or appealing, but for some reason, at the time I was exposed to this form of gaming, it just didn't have that for me.
Yes, in theory you could use little markers made out of anything to get going. But the very idea of having to have an actual army to field in a game to stand a chance against someone else's army was something that seemed aimed at the big spenders with lots of free-time. Then there's the monotony of having to paint it all to look presentable. Your time and money is yours to spend of course, I'm not judging anyone's hobby, it just wasn't for me at the time.
Now I can already hear the balks from the wargaming fans. The half or more of the fun is the collecting, the assembling, the crafting, the painting, the terrain building, the presentation. I'd rather play the game. Not everyone wants all that fuss. More than a few folks in the HQ Remake thread begged for the miniature color differentiation, not just because they didn't want to paint everything (and not just for lack of skill, but some certainly gave this), and not just for sheer nostalgia of those familiar colors, but the idea that the average buyer would be expected to be a hobbyist painter as well, and add additional prep time to what ought to just be a "play out of the box" game, was an extra barrier to entry. These people aren't "lazy" and I wouldn't say they are "not true fans" because they don't want to go the extra mile to measure up to others who enjoy that sort of dedication to preparation. When I see a set of well painted miniatures and I see a FAQ written by someone who has consumed massive amounts of lore for some game I say "wow" but that "wow" can't account for the countless hours sweated away by the person who put it together, can it?
Had I really wanted to be a wargamer back in the day, I probably would have done what our friend here did and just buy a bunch of HQ sets. I'd be the laughingstock of the local hardcore gamer shop, but it would have worked for me. I just didn't have the desire, and frankly, I still don't. I think even if I were invited to a session and allowed to use someone else's "fancy setup" it still wouldn't prompt me to embark on a lifelong crusade to become just like them, even if it was fun for that evening.
I think it should be clear by now that whether the explicit intention behind HQ originally was to "serve as a stepping stone to..." (Warhammer fantasy, or as Hasbro reps now simplistically refer "basically D&D in a box" something I don't fully agree with)... it has taken on a life of its own. HQ for many, is an end in itself. Rather than being a "gateway drug" it IS the drug. All of the effort spent crafting new HQ material could have been spent building a Warhammer army, surely, right? But hobbyists don't need a justification. If it's fun for you and worth it to you, you do it, rather than what someone else thinks you should be doing. I've had strangers try to become my friend just to have another player at the table (and who can blame them? more the merrier with most games!).
I didn't grow up with D&D because people around me didn't play it, and I didn't want to buy a bunch of books, when I was already spending my money on other books I wanted to read instead. That was my choice, at the end of the day. The time and effort I would have spent exploring a game like that was spent on other pursuits I enjoyed. And D&D knows there are "lazy" people who don't want to paint miniatures and sells figures "done" for you. Most franchise have realized all their potential customers aren't the same, and have tried ways to get those dollars. That's why Dragon Strike was made, to grab some of those people who liked a HQ type game, and so on. I can't blame them for trying.
Despite their similarities, many differences exist because a fantasy war-game like Warhammer, and a fantasy themed board game like Hero Quest. The accessibility of HQ is that its complete out of the box, nothing more need to be done or added. Expansions exist to make more money but they are essentially more of the same... extra rule clarifications but extra tiles, cards, miniatures and quests. Out of the box you have all the tools to make your own quests already. IF you want to paint the figures, you're more than welcome to. If you want to photocopy the cards or tiles to make more, you are given permission to do so.
So for those who wish to "just play the dang thing" you get all that and no pressure. If you want to expand, and add more (as a large number of us fans have here), you can do so.
I am well aware that GW did offer "I just want to play the dang thing" players bones. Some time ago a family member gifted me the remains of a set he had, which was an army of "Orks" (this was 40K) to paint if I wanted. Yes, the figures originally would have had to be added to bases, and primed, and painted (being all gray). But all the tools were in the box to have your battle between the Space Marines and the Bad guys. Dice, and all the accessories needed to play were there, and all the books explaining how to do it and examples of how to paint it. This is good. But the general focus of wargaming, and the appeal, seems to be about crafting a big army to go up against another army and expressing yourself that way. This doesn't appeal to all players. Just like all card game players aren't interested in pokemon or Magic the Gathering, and not all sports fans are interested in playing video games based on their favorite franchise. There's something out there for everyone, and each to their own.
Do you have to love the Warhammer world and become an amateur Warhammer historian to enjoy Heroquest? I've already been told by multiple people that this isn't necessary. It would seem to be something built into those who are trying to get the most out of the wargame and the p&p rpg of course, so no problem there. Maybe that doesn't appeal to you, maybe you just want to flip cards, roll dice and move plastic pieces around a board while spending time with your friends with minimal prep work. Maybe pouring over books and double-checking encyclopedia entries isn't "work" and is part of the fun. Again, what is great fun for you may be busy-work for another.
So we come to the pencil and paper RPG. A large variety of such games exist, with all kinds of themes and levels of customization potential. If I searched far enough I could find one that I liked. What could be more affordable and accessible than a game that only requires a pen & paper, and your imagination and maybe a simple set of dice? So they make their money selling lots of books. So you photocopy your friend's book, you get one from the library, you use a public domain or free game. You make it up as you go along. The sky is the limit! Hero Quest appeals for those who don't want to do all that, but like moving pieces around on a board. Yes, I know you can play D&D with pieces on a board, and you can add in all the things people who play HQ like to your game. You can make it as resource intensive and hobby focused as you like. That's awesome.
Instead of pondering why I'm not a Warhammer fantasy gamer, you really ought to be asking me why I didn't get into "Warhammer Quest" when it was reasonably available. Because at the time I had other interests. I had taken a break from playing Hero Quest non-stop. Nothing really grabbed me about this particular product and it was off the radar pretty quickly. HQ came out when I was the perfect age to love it. I loved board games and the fantasy theme, but there were plenty of other things that took up my time including reading the legends that inspired all this stuff. And while I was a Star Wars fan, I wasn't interested in spending all my time studying Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon and I had seen a few Kurosawa films and other projects by George Lucas, but even then I didn't worship the man as some did, nor did I find it necessary to enjoy three movies.
I once had it out with a guy who insisted that video games were for babies, that adults shouldn't enjoy that hobby. It turns out this person was a huge fan of watching cartoons, so I don't think he had much room to talk. To some people "fantasy football" is a "mature" hobby, while to others it is a colossal waste of time and they get made fun of for not playing actual sports like normal people. I don't try to shame others for their hobbies, but we all have to pick and choose what we want. "Try everything" they'll say, but nobody actually does that, except maybe Chuck Norris. It's like when I talk to fans of certain Tv shows. They will insist that you watch the whole show to be able to have an opinion about it. I typically will give a show 3-5 episodes. If it doesn't grab me then, I'm not going to bother. They call it closed minded, but I'm more inclined to just move on to something that does engage me.
What all multiplayer games need is a community, and now thanks to the internet you can find those communities if you want them. For me HQ is a combination of nostalgia and fun. I chose to spend my time and money on certain hobbies but not others, and its worth it to me. I'll try other games, but that's different than investing in them. I certainly wouldn't begrudge anyone doing differently.
For me the idea of the Lore is to serve the game. If it doesn't serve the game, its little more than a colorful background that gets forgotten as the real action begins. Maybe it draws you in, or maybe it gets in the way. Some of what I see in the Remake thread is a fear that new lore will corrupt the love of previous lore, which is always a fear with remade or rebooted franchises. If the Lore is given as an explanation for rule changes or new elements, it certainly has an effect.
So respect to lore, and the people who love it. I've been a part of many fandoms where disputes over lore and its interpretation, mainly brought on by poor handling by the owners, have made them less enjoyable. I certainly don't want that for HQ, but some of it may be unavoidable. The only way to get around this would have been to just re-release the many versions of HQ as is, a true reprint. I would have bought that! But at the same time I can't fully blame the powers that be for doing a remake instead of a reprint, because of legal issues. The other creative decisions, we'll have to see if they pan out.
What we can't reasonably expect is that they'll reprint the Old World of Warhammer in this new version. Until such a time, if any, that GW and Hasbro get back together, it will be left to the fans to decide how much or how little of the "old lore" gets used in their game. Out of the box, I'm predicting precisely none, except that which is inherent to whatever arrangement they have, despite the changed names. And maybe, for now, it's better that way, than to blatantly contradict it. After the unboxings and the community reaction (and any response from Hasbro) we'll know if it was "worth it" to Warhammer fantasy fans who also love Hero Quest. If you just want a pre-made world of fantasy to use as the image of a "wider world" to your HQ sessions, the Warhammer world is as good a choice as any, and it won't kill the game for most if it isn't explicitly there in the remake. My current made-up world for HQ is mostly just making up technologies to replace magic (in a game where magic takes center stage) drawing inspiration from all sorts of comics, video games, legends, real history, and in-jokes with my family. I don't have a problem playing in someone else's world now and then but when you insist upon it you start to lose me... I don't feel so loyal to a certain brand that I feel restricted to their intentions in my games... if you insist upon this one definitive world I say "More power to you" and if you want to quote me, that would be the best one.
Now tell me wrong, wrong, wrong, and get back to what you were talking about, I beg you.
