Overview of the Old World

[Davane]

If nothing in Warhammer contradicts HeroQuest, then I guess there's no need.

Oh, there's plenty in Warhammer that contradicts HQ. Like the magic system...

[Kurgan]

That's the thing, I don't want any questions answered. I'm not even asking any questions. As for over-estimating my own ability, I'm not sure that's relevant since I'm not seeking to do anything here. I've been told repeatedly I don't need Warhammer, which is great, I appreciate that.

Also, as much as we appreciate your input on these forums, Kurgan, throwing up ideas that aren't for you doesn't really help anyone.

I don't see that this is necessarily true. It's quite possible to provide suggestions and feedback on projects I will never use, and have no interest in using, just to help somebody out.

The best case scenario always is just to secretly finish your game product, and then dump it on the world. Of course then people might totally hate it, but then they had no say in its creation to begin with! I wouldn't have imagined a book-length text would be required for something like this. If there's a need for it, it will happen. If not, it won't. I wasn't even thinking of some unification of Warhammer with HeroQuest, just the relevant bits covered by HQ. The lowest amount of detail possible. But here I go again, making suggestions. I agree that HQ is simple enough and doesn't need anything more, and yet here we all are, adding more or less what we want to. But if you were to make your idealized version of HQ that had all the stuff in you wanted, would it need to be 500 pages? Only you can make that decision since you'd be putting the work in (whoever "you" are). Maybe if it existed, nobody would care about such a thing. I'd at least take a look at it, since I was there when the seed was planted. No need to mention me in the credits of course.

I could advise anyone wanting to do a project like this, and might even be willing to help out, but I just don't have the dedication to it right now. Until that point, I can recommend people where to go to "do their own research," and if anyone does take the time to write up some notes, sharing them might be nice.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you Davane.

[Kurgan]

If nothing in Warhammer contradicts HeroQuest, then I guess there's no need.

Oh, there's plenty in Warhammer that contradicts HQ. Like the magic system...

You and I should play Hero Quest some time, I think it would be a lively experience.

[Cael Darkhollow]

If nothing in Warhammer contradicts HeroQuest, then I guess there's no need.

Oh, there's plenty in Warhammer that contradicts HQ. Like the magic system...

if we are talking world setting there really is none or very very few discrepancies or retcons in any of the games set in the old world. the setting is the same.

if we are talking game mechanics then it is an obvious apples to oranges meaningless comparison. Spell systems, combat, even equipment rules are always going to be different in widely different game styles, dungeon crawl board game vs. tapletop miniatures war game vs. pencil and paper role playing game.

As far as magic goes the simplistic elemental magic of HQ is still present and many of the same spells or effects are unchanged, including titles, for instance there literally is a fire spells Lore of Fire Aqsby the fire wind, Lore of heavens can arguably be wind, lore of life the HQ elf spells etc. in Warhammer Fantasy.

I agree with Davane, at what point do you cease playing HQ and start playing a custom roleplay or homebrew boardgame?
I think the creators obviously intended for consumers to make their own board set ups and stories with the blank map page and the adventure design kit, but the moment you add anything game mechanics wise not set in or at least compatible in the Old World setting or the HQ rule set, you are then playing homebrew pseudo RPG or a custom boardgame, not the clearly defined HQ board game. It becomes your own world or Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay lite. design your own quests, throw in stats for a cave squig or a Battlemasters Chaos archer, come up with your own back story, invent a new trap, and its all still HeroQuest, but if you change the world or add something not in it, you are delving into custom gaming.
However, you can tell the HQ players all you want about Warhammer, the world setting, the characters, the races etc. and still be playing HeroQuest. The fluff is completely compatible and usuable without changing the actual HQ board game.

[Cael Darkhollow]

for anybody wishing to own something that is a good overview of the Warhammer world without any of the game rules that are not HQ:
The World of Warhammer, the official illustrated guide to the fantasy world, published in 1998.

[Kurgan]

Interesting... 192 pages.

[j_dean80]

This thread is meant to be a reference for anyone interested in learning more about the Warhammer World that HeroQuest was developed in. (End point)

No more, no less.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

Not to derail, but there I think to ask what do you need it for? If you want to create a world to give the illusion of a bigger, grander setting, go for it. I don't draw world maps, I just lay out the quests. The needs of the particular adventure are what dictate what goes where and if there's continuity between them, great. You could pick a setting, modify an existing one, or just make one up. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, Hasbro does with that setting in the Remake. Nobody here really knows, yet...

Kurgan - I think you have hit the nail on the head! What do I need it for? Short answer is that it isn't essential, but I have occasionally used the Warhammer Old World map in one of the Quest books to set Quests in specific areas of the Old World (like Kellar's Keep does) and was wondering if you were to de-warhammer HeroQuest does it leave a gap and what would you fill it with? For me personally I would include all material published as part of HeroQuest as canon including the Old World Map and will continue to do so but I guess you have answered that already from an official point of view and I'll wait for Hasbro to let me and the rest of us know!

[Cael Darkhollow]

Interesting... 192 pages.

yup.
The World of Warhammer, the official illustrated guide to the fantasy world
title page 2
contents 4
foreword 6
introduction 8
welcome to the world of Warhammer 10
15-16 old world map ( mini maps with each major race/faction)
races 16
lizardmen 18
high elves 32
wood elves 52
dwarfs 60
the Empire 70
Bretonnia 78
realm of chaos 86
skaven 104
chaos dwarfs 116
dark elves 124
undead 136
orcs and goblins 148
A-Z of races 160
Warhammer world timeline 166
great events 170
heroes & villains 180
index 186
printed 1998 (Games Workshop limited) during 5th edition Warhammer, so 6 years after any HeroQuest was released, sadly fimir were gone by then. HQ was published during 3rd-4th edition WH, but still a useful overview of each army race, the setting and timeline.

[Cael Darkhollow]

Not to derail, but there I think to ask what do you need it for? If you want to create a world to give the illusion of a bigger, grander setting, go for it. I don't draw world maps, I just lay out the quests. The needs of the particular adventure are what dictate what goes where and if there's continuity between them, great. You could pick a setting, modify an existing one, or just make one up. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, Hasbro does with that setting in the Remake. Nobody here really knows, yet...

Kurgan - I think you have hit the nail on the head! What do I need it for? Short answer is that it isn't essential, but I have occasionally used the Warhammer Old World map in one of the Quest books to set Quests in specific areas of the Old World (like Kellar's Keep does) and was wondering if you were to de-warhammer HeroQuest does it leave a gap and what would you fill it with? For me personally I would include all material published as part of HeroQuest as canon including the Old World Map and will continue to do so but I guess you have answered that already from an official point of view and I'll wait for Hasbro to let me and the rest of us know!

I'm certain (well, confident from what we have seen) that the Hasbro HeroQuest reboot releasing later this year will not have a new detailed world setting developed for it,
and with GamesWorkshop's rich and lavishly detailed Old World stripped from it that gave original HeroQuest so much of it's flavor, I'm afraid we are stuck with a very bland generic (likely unnamed) setting or detached backstory as quest intros. People unfamiliar with original HQ will see it as another D&D clone.

Only the delusioned or optimistically naive think the Nu-HQ is actually just a rerelease of the same old HQ game with only a few minor name changes for copyright purposes.

Nope, it's a completely different game without the Old World setting, it's an integral part of the original HeroQuest we all love that defines it's style and fantasy beings. (Nu-HQ definitely needs it's own section here on the forums because it WILL be a different game and incompatible with the old game because of the setting loss, rules tweaks, race changes, etc.)

The kinds of character types they introduced for the reboot wouldn't work in original HQ, but in their generic D&D-a-fied version anything goes I guess.
The Old World races ( and their identifiable old world characteristics) we are used to are gone for good.

No more fimir or chaos warriors.
No Emperor or Empire to defend from Chaos, undead and greenskins.
No realm of Chaos or chaos incursions from the North threatening to overwhelm the realms or corrupt and taint.
No Chaos sorcerers using the winds of raw magic, and the term warlock has been redefined.

No more iconic dim witted battlelusting or insidiously crafty green skins that defined the fantasy orc and goblin image in gaming for decades, they are sadly replaced with buff too-tall tusked heavily armored heavily muscled generic humanoids with hair that can assume any PC profession such as bard and join any side, (orcs are now ogres?????) or big headed charactures in the case of goblins, the kind of greenskins that have happy friendly orcs who sing around the campfire playing instruments and join other races on dungeon delves to inexplicably kill their own kind.

The Old World halflings that are the Tolkien-hobbit-like insular homebodies that prefer gardening and cooking to adventuring or warfare while safely ensconced in their Moot homelands within the Empire that protects them are replaced with demon dealing or possessed dark magic user halflings.

High Elves and Wood Elves and their home lands and back stories no longer exist, the standard fantasy elf tropes, replaced with generic elves.

Skaven won't exist (they do in the HeroQuest quests published in White Dwarf, Advanced HeroQuest, and the Old World setting.)

The place names they substitute won't mean anything because no map will be published.

We all will be forced to build our own custom world for the new version, or accept it as a generic D&D or Warcraft clone, or default back to the original Old World setting and ignore the changes as best as we can. This reboot is sounding more and more like a Microsoft software version that will be jarringly different from what we are used to.

HeroQuest needs the Old World setting for it's very identity, without it, amnesia sets in and it will struggle with "who" it really is. We have already seen this with the hero design from developers unfamiliar with the original game. Without HeroQuest's past intact and likely gone for good, is it still HeroQuest?

If Hasbro does make it a product brand with new products released at retail going forward, they will have to develop their own setting or use one of their previously established IPs, and the game will be HeroQuest in name and basic concept only going forward. I'm afraid they are using the HeroQuest brand name but don't realize they have stripped away the actual HQ brand with the setting loss.
It will become a commercially sponsored custom HQ, obviously different and incompatible with the original published game.

Now lots of people play their own custom HeroQuest divorced from the Old World setting already, but I think they don't realize just how much of the game's original flavor is from Games Workshop. The style, artwork, races, monsters, reasons for quests, etc. Games Workshop's collaboration with Milton Bradley for the original was what made it work.

Sure, an official setting isn't essential and you can just make one up, but will it be anywhere near as good as the original?
I don't think so.