Playing Quest Packs as a Series

[drathe]

It's odd that AtOH says that the treasure cards are to be shuffled between quests when this should be happening before a treasure card is drawn.

???

I only shuffle it at the start of a quest. Treasure is discarded when drawn, traps and other negative effects are either put back on the bottom or shuffled back in. I don't shuffle before EACH draw, what's the point?

The point is randomness. If the cards are in a set order, then the Heroes can finally know when all the good ones are gone and quit searching (they'll know when they start getting the same hazards or multiple bad cards in a row).
Shuffling before each draw mixes the bad cards added back into the deck instead of putting them at the bottom. If the Heroes want that last potion of healing, they'll be taking a big risk to get it.
I used to only shuffle at the beginning of the quest until I realised the rules say to shuffle before each draw. As the evil wizard, I enjoy the shuffling before each draw as the risks increase as the good cards go down.

[knightkrawler]

It's odd that AtOH says that the treasure cards are to be shuffled between quests when this should be happening before a treasure card is drawn.

???

I only shuffle it at the start of a quest. Treasure is discarded when drawn, traps and other negative effects are either put back on the bottom or shuffled back in. I don't shuffle before EACH draw, what's the point?

The point is randomness. If the cards are in a set order, then the Heroes can finally know when all the good ones are gone and quit searching (they'll know when they start getting the same hazards or multiple bad cards in a row).
Shuffling before each draw mixes the bad cards added back into the deck instead of putting them at the bottom. If the Heroes want that last potion of healing, they'll be taking a big risk to get it.
I used to only shuffle at the beginning of the quest until I realised the rules say to shuffle before each draw. As the evil wizard, I enjoy the shuffling before each draw as the risks increase as the good cards go down.

Exactly. I was incredibly lazy when I last posted in this thread. But there you go.

[Redav]

what's the point?

Three reasons;

It's in the rules

The point is randomness.

If the Heroes want that last potion of healing, they'll be taking a big risk to get it.

I used to only shuffle at the beginning of the quest until I realised the rules say to shuffle before each draw. As the evil wizard, I enjoy the shuffling before each draw as the risks increase as the good cards go down.

Same. I thought that this was a rule that was only partly written until I realised it was my reading of it that wasn't complete . I knew that the good cards were removed and that meant that all the bad stuff was still there but I didn't think that heroes would search enough to get to nothing but bad stuff. However the rules do state that the deck should be shuffled between treasure card draws so that will increase the chance of bad stuff happening.

The groups I play with like the change as it adds a level theatre that they like

It's in the rules and Redav mentioned that they play RAW.

Does anyone else not do this on purpose?

[knightkrawler]

Probability is not a game-deciding factor with me cause I have some 100 treasure cards, divided into three decks and only two searches per room are allowed.
It's not dramatic, but yet I play RAW and shuffle after each draw. It's just the sensible thing to do to keep treasure card draw completely out of tactical things to consider.
A treaure card draw should be pure luck/bad luck and not something the players even try to calculate to soon.

I make sure that each deck has its advantages/disadvantages.
One has average level threats (less) and average level rewards (more): that's the first search in a room, expressing that the probability to find something good is high.
The second has all kinds of threats (half) and high level rewards (half): that's the second search in a room, expressing that a more thorough search is more risky, yet much more rewarding in all likelihood.
Then there's a deck for furniture that contains many potions, but also the very risky threats.

My new custom deck will be very streamlined, card for card written up for each deck, to carry our experiences with them. Monster cards, for example, will explicitly state which monster is the wandering monster*, and thus make monster cards staggered in threat.

______________________________________________________________________________
* Might as well post examples here:
Wandering Monster
Your turn is ended immediately. Morcar activates one figure of the type of monster presented in the quest notes as the wandering monster for this quest as close as possible to the square you are occupying and attacks you if possible. If not, it is activated adjacent or as close as possible to any one Hero or Companion and attacks wherever applicable. Its turn is then ended.

Wandering Monster
Your turn is ended immediately. Morcar successively activates two figures of the type of monster you find most often as an icon in this quest map as close as possible to the square you are occupying and attacks you with both if possible. If not, they are activated adjacent or as close as possible to any one Hero or Companion and attacks wherever applicable. Their respective turns are then ended.

[Sjeng]

I didn't know it was in the rules to shuffle before each draw

[sajungzak]

I didn't know it was in the rules to shuffle before each draw

I know, I had to re read that section of the rules. But, if you read it carefully, yes, that's what it says.

[mitchiemasha]

I didn't know it was in the rules to shuffle before each draw

Neither did we but it makes perfect sense.

[Daedalus]

The British EU second edition (p14) and NA rules (p.16) both explicitly instruct reshuffling of the Treasure Cards in play.

The first edition of the British EU rules don't instruct to shuffle the Treasure Cards after returning a negative card. You had to figure that out. Found under Treasure Cards on p.13 of the Rules of Play, you do the following:

• gems and gold coins- record the amount and return the card to the bottom of the deck
• potions- return the card to the bottom of the deck after use
• traps and wandering monsters- do as the card instructs, which is to return the card to the treasure pile

The difference to be recognized is that negative cards aren't returned to the bottom of the deck. Naturally, such cards aren't replaced at the top of the pile. This leaves somewhere in between. The best choice is to reshuffle negative cards into the deck without the used positive cards. (The used positive cards should be returned face up at the bottom of the deck.)

If the active deck isn't shuffled with each returned card, then you are able to stack all negative cards at the bottom. This would allow all other Treasure Cards to be played before the returned negative cards came up again. That would insure every positive Treasure Card to be gotten before a negative card came up again. Since players can count the cards as they get them, they would know when only negative cards remained and would never draw a returned negative Treasure Card. This would make returning a negative card to the active Treasure Cards pointless. Thus, shuffling is implied.

[slev]

The question here is about more than shuffling the bad cards back in though.

That bad cards are shuffled back in is non-controversial I feel. The question is if the deck need be shuffled each draw or only at the start of the game and when bad cards are returned to it.

Ultimatley, it makes little difference to the odds.

[Schmidt]

If there was no rule about it and I had to make one up it would be:

• before the game starts, shuffle the treasure cards
• if a positive card is drawn do not return it to the treasure card pile and don't shuffle
• if a negative card is drawn return it to the treasure card pile and shuffle