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Mage of the Mirror (Elf Quest Pack) Errata & Fixes if Remake

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc, from the Elf Quest Pack: The Mage of the Mirror.

Mage of the Mirror (Elf Quest Pack) Errata & Fixes if Remake

Postby Kurgan » Monday April 4th, 2022 12:15am

Some would say (including myself) that it's only a matter of time before Hasbro remakes this infamous rare and difficult quest pack for the Elf just like they are doing now with the Frozen Horror. Yes, a lot depends upon how well 1992's Barbarian Quest pack remake is received. On the other thread I listed some simple, easy steps that could be taken to make it more palatable to fans of the series that aren't quite diehard homebrewers like the small percentage of customers who are on forums like this. Only one of my suggestions would require any real extra cost but would worth it and welcome. Did I miss any? Please add them below! :2cents:

I also added a link at the end for a longer version of the BQP errata.

As here (Frozen Horror fixes): :barbarian: :elf:
Kurgan wrote:
cornixt wrote:I don't have faith that we'll get anything other than a reproduction with all its flaws like what has been made so far.
I feel like this site should collaborate to produce an unofficial errata, a one page printout that can be spread around the internet easily. This site seems to have more of a scattering of ideas that are not so easy to find.

...

3) Recovery from "Shock" state possible. Bring your Mind Points above zero and that character recovers.
...
9) "Blind" Trap Jumping mechanic introduced. In the game system rules, jumping traps require that the location of a trap be first discovered by searching (or else known in the case of a visible sprung Pit Trap tile). A proposed rule in the draft stage was that a Hero (or Merc ally) could simply choose to jump a specific square. Only if they failed (rolled a Skull on 1 combat die) and landed on the square they were attempting to Jump would Zargon be required to reveal if there was a trap there, and the consequences. This would give Heroes a chance against "trap on the opposite side of an open door" incidences, especially Stalactite Traps that do instant unblockable damage, and Wandering Monster Traps which are otherwise undetectable. It would be sheer luck and guesswork on the part of the heroes and still has a chance to fail of course. Only downside is that paranoid players could be jumping the square every time, but since they can only jump one square, they will still guess wrongly and fall into some traps most likely or get lazy and caught off guard later. ...
...


A similar list could (and should) be compiled for Elf Quest Pack.


So in that same spirit here is a list of simple fixes that could make it a success, rather than an obscure collector's item that most players wouldn't "get" except to use the minis for their own homebrew adventures but actually want to play over and over like the earlier Remake releases!

Fix Suggestions for Errata:

[ Now that the MOTM remake is shipping around and has been unboxed (as of 12/21/22) we can confirm responses to the errata!]

1) Implement Mercenaries (Men at Arms) just like the Frozen Horror for hire in Quests 4-9. Here is a golden opportunity to include some alternate sculpts, but even 3x each of dark blue Halberdiers, Scouts, Swordsmen & Crossbowman identical to the other pack would do.

[ The remake edition is confirmed to allow this in the questbook. Any mercenaries you have access to in other ways are available in the group quests.]

2) Similarly to above, add the ability to "retain" mercs at a discount if they survive a quest, encouraging responsible use rather than wasting them in an decidedly unheroic manner (more gold for other things too). Some Elves you encounter are good and will fight by your side under certain conditions. A captured Elven Warrior could be placed into Quest 2 on the Torture Rack that if rescued would aide the Hero till the end of that quest. Similarly a wounded Elf Warrior or Archer could be found in the room with the Table in Quest 1. Whether human mercs or Elves, these could be very useful. Later on you'll need both types to tell friend and foe apart.

3) Some Artifacts can be used ONLY by the Elf (Bow of Vindication, Bracers). Others only mention the Elf (Ancient Staff, Elven Boots, Elven Chainmail), these latter should be usable by ANY hero (except Elven Chainmail, which as armor was probably intended to be like Borin's Armor and not wearable by the Wizard although the text doesn't say he cannot) since the Elf could die or want to gift them. Clarify the "Ancient Staff" is a magical artifact rather than a weapon, so its use does not impede the ability to carry a shield or use another type of staff in combat.

4) Make Elven Chainmail card and incorporate the Elven Bracers. Retain Elven Chainmail as the reward for completing solo quest 1, but make the Elven Bracers a special reward for completing solo Quest 3, it logically adds a note of accomplishment to these very difficult quests and also clarify as a magical artifact it doesn't prohibit the use of other types of armor. Making the Avenger Sword temporarily usable as a weapon (as strong as a battle axe) would be cool though you have to return it at the end of the quest.

[ No card, but Elven Chainmail Armor is worded a bit more vaguely now... either it is only for the Elf or it can be used by any hero (including the Wizard!). The Elven Bracers are now officially given in Quest 1 as well, which really helps the Elf!]

5) Fix the confusing anticlimax of Quest 2: at "D" say the captured attendant women are hiding INSIDE a large trunk represented by the Treasure chest, and let the Elf search Weapons Rack for treasure (letting them choose one piece of Armor or a Weapon as in Quest 3). Providing miniatures or a tile showing the prisoners if you expect them to follow the Elf to safety makes sense (unless they are small gnomes riding on the Elf's shoulders I guess). To shorten the slog, place another secret door tile that leads back through the Giant Wolf room as a shortcut or else turn the adjoining solid rock into another secret door room for the same purpose.

[No fix here other than throwing in 200 gold to the chest in the room]

6) Quest 1, the very first chest you find is unmarked. It should probably contain at least one Potion of Healing (+4 or 1d6) if not two. Alternately it could be another weapon or piece of armor. The Barbarian gets lots of armor & weapons early in his solo quests while the Elf is given very little, so here's another opportunity.

[This is where the Elven Bracers were put. A rule clarification says that any unmarked treasure chest gives the first treasure searching hero 200 gold, but there are now no more examples of unmarked chests, which is a good thing!]

7) Quest 4 has an empty room just north of where the group starts and is very likely to face an extreme battle with 20 BP worth of monsters right away (forcing them probably to use up all their healing spells). I would place a treasure chest in this room and put some healing potions or some Spell Scrolls inside to make the rest of the quest more survivable. Have the Weapons Rack contain something more than broken pieces, perhaps another Equipment pick at least for the first hero who searches.

[ The chest now contains 300 gold coins.]

8) Quest 7 features a heavily guarded but unmarked Treasure Chest once again. It should contain another Elixir of Life, a couple of healing potions or spell scrolls after a massive fight like this.

[ The chest now contains 500 gold coins.]

9) Quest 9: clarify that Sinestra has to flee (taking at least 3 turns) from her Start into the room to the northeast to be able to use "Re-animation" spell since there are no undead to raise anywhere else other than the room with the stairs which is even farther away. If the secret door was never opened, allow Sinestra to be able to open it to bring the undead into the fight.

10) Clarify whether the Elven Cloak of Passage (Treasure Card) is meant to allow a hero trapped inside solid rock to escape or if he still dies if he just ends his movement there but has another "use" of the cloak left. Also clarify whether Elf Spell "Twist Wood" can weaken the weapons of other enemies like Ogres, "Dread" Warriors or Abominations (Chaos Warriors or Fimirs in the original) if we presume their armaments are made partially or mostly of wood.

Any I forgot? These should make this pack's campaign a lot smoother while still retaining quite a bit of challenge and be very easy to implement with these simple solutions. |_P :elf:

A more extensive list post for the Frozen Horror has also been started.

Now that we have a release date, I've started a new thread here:
https://forum.yeoldeinn.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6270
Last edited by Kurgan on Thursday December 22nd, 2022 3:58pm, edited 9 times in total.


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Re: Mage of the Mirror Remake Fixes (if & when)...

Postby HispaZargon » Monday April 4th, 2022 7:41am

Like Borin's Armor, I consider that Elven Chainmail may not be used by the Wizard. As far as I know, somebody told one of the original drafts included such limitation but it was not finally written in the released questbook, I guess probably due to lack of available space, but it was originally written there.


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Re: Mage of the Mirror Remake Fixes (if & when)...

Postby Kurgan » Monday April 4th, 2022 8:17am

A fair point, the magical chainmail shouldn't be worn by the Wizard, just like the magical plate armor (Borin's Armor) can't be worn by the Wizard. I had to check the original printed version and it doesn't say he can't wear it, probably an oversight. If the Wizard didn't already have Bracers in this version I'd say let it slide, because he could use the extra defense by this point!

I meant it is not an exclusive to the Elf, despite the term "Elven" in its name.


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Re: Mage of the Mirror Remake Fixes (EQP, if & when)...

Postby Kurgan » Wednesday April 27th, 2022 12:36pm

If you add additional Heroes to these "solo" quests, you should also probably double (or triple, etc) the amount of gold awarded from treasure chests (since this is divided up according to the rule clarifications).

In the Game System you got gold rewards for the first few quests. It may or may not be logical to get gold automatically for finding the door in the first one, but you could come up with creative excuses to have a gold reward for Solo Quest 1 in Barbarian Quest pack...

Perhaps a bounty on one of the monsters (or on the crossbowman, in my homebrew idea he joins you in exchange for his life instead of just handing over his crossbow... for aiding you he is pardoned and so he pays you the cost of a Mercenary... 75 gold coins if he survives the quest).

A gold reward for destroying the boss in Quest 2 BQP would also be appropriate (perhaps 100 gold each if multiple heroes, or 150 for a single hero). Then the Armband of Ice as a reward for saving Gothar (if more than one hero, then a second artifact or two for the other heroes, but the main reward ought to go to the Barbarian). Perhaps a Spell Scroll for the other heroes who survived (but didn't save Gothar). Other allies ("Mercenaries" don't get any treasure).


For the Mage of the Mirror I propose:

Solo Quest 1: The automatic reward for the Avenger sword (which must be handed over; but I personally think it should be usable as a weapon, perhaps 4 combat dice and doesn't impede a shield)... is the Elven Chainmail for the Elf. If playing with multiple heroes, then the one who returns the sword should get the magical armor and the other hero(es) should get appropriate artifacts or treasures. Perhaps a Spell Scroll each?

Solo Quest 2: Already a reward of 150 gold coins (multiply by the number of surviving heroes if extras are added).

Solo Quest 3: The otherwise never-found/used Elven Bracers artifact should be awarded to the Elf (the only one who can use it) for completing this quest. If other heroes are used, other appropriate artifacts should be awarded, such as spell scrolls. Another cool idea could be an Elven Cloak of Passage (found in the treasure deck but good for 3 uses).

The great thing about spell scrolls, like potions, the hero is not required to be holding the card (cards don't limit supply) to use it. Instead it can be recorded on the character sheet similar to recording a potion. They are single use anyway.


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Re: Mage of the Mirror (Elf Quest Pack) Errata & Fixes if Re

Postby Kurgan » Wednesday April 27th, 2022 2:53pm

For reference for other "early quest" rewards...

"The Trial" gave no reward, nor did "Rogar's Hall" the remake era "first quest" suggestion.

"The Maze" gave 100 gold to the hero who exited the quest first.

"Rescue of Sir Ragnar" gave 240 gold to the party if Sir Ragnar was rescued. (Quest 2: Game System)

"Lair of the Orc Warlord" gave 180 gold if the boss bad guy was killed. (Quest 3: Game System)

"Prince Magnus' Gold" reward of 240 gold coins for returning all of the Prince's gold (Quest 4: Game System).

After this the Game System starts giving Artifacts as rewards for successful completion of the quests generally speaking whether at the end or left behind by a boss or character named in the quest notes.

KK and ROTWL have some nice treasures and artifacts, but the rewards convention seems to have been left behind, probably because by this time the Heroes will have gathered a lot of loot from their previous adventures and own just about everything they could want (Mercenaries and other things not being introduced yet, though potions from the Alchemist shop are still offered between quests).

EQP gives reward of an artifact in solo quest 1 (Elven Chainmail) [Phoenix's idea was to give the Elven Bracers here instead. I disagree, I think this should be given for completing solo quest 3]. this is a good reward even though it has no card, because he really needs it.

EQP solo quest 2 reward: 150 gold coins

EQP solo quest 3 didn't have a reward by default but ought to have, I think this is a perfect time to award the Elven Bracers artifact to the Elf which is otherwise never given or found in this expansion.


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Re: Mage of the Mirror (Elf Quest Pack) Errata & Fixes if Re

Postby HispaZargon » Wednesday April 27th, 2022 8:33pm

Kurgan wrote:EQP gives reward of an artifact in solo quest 1 (Elven Chainmail) [Phoenix's idea was to give the Elven Bracers here instead. I disagree, I think this should be given for completing solo quest 3]. this is a good reward even though it has no card, because he really needs it.

EQP solo quest 3 didn't have a reward by default but ought to have, I think this is a perfect time to award the Elven Bracers artifact to the Elf which is otherwise never given or found in this expansion.

Agree... Bracers should had been given to the Elf.


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Re: Mage of the Mirror (Elf Quest Pack) Errata & Fixes if Re

Postby HispaZargon » Wednesday April 27th, 2022 8:53pm

Kurgan wrote:Any I forgot? These should make this pack's campaign a lot smoother while still retaining quite a bit of challenge and be very easy to implement with these simple solutions. |_P :elf:

Perhaps already commented but I would also say that quest maps #9-10 from EQP can be easily changed to allow using the same board if wished by players. The two minor changes needed are the following ones:

Quest map #9: Just move the upper top 1x1 block tile one square to the right.
AND
Quest map #10: Just move the upper top 1x1 block tile one square to the left.

Not sure but seeing the maps it seems original designers wanted the two maps being fully compatible but unfortunately this block tile I think does not let it as it is currently placed.


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Re: Mage of the Mirror (Elf Quest Pack) Errata & Fixes if Re

Postby Kurgan » Wednesday April 27th, 2022 10:59pm

Interesting point! It wouldn't change anything with the difficulty if they made it all on one board... but it seems they are probably still planning for exactly 10 quests as with the picture of the character sheet. If they made them a single quest, they'd probably add an additional quest somewhere.


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Re: Mage of the Mirror (Elf Quest Pack) Errata & Fixes if Re

Postby lestodante » Friday April 29th, 2022 7:15pm

I don't see any reason to change the content of the questpacks, after all, it is what the original authors designed. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I am joking of course!! (You know what I am referring to) ;)


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Re: Mage of the Mirror (Elf Quest Pack) Errata & Fixes if Re

Postby wallydubbs » Friday May 27th, 2022 6:42pm

Although I doubt Hasbro would find this forum or even bother to make the changes, I understand and respect what you're doing Kurgan.
I can agree with you on multiple points here, that first chest and quest one should definitely have two potions of healing and maybe even a potion of defense, I would also remove one of the giant wolves from Quest 2. There should be bigger and better rewards for the solo quests for a unequipped Hero to play through, this would also means that the quests need o be modified, I'll get to that...
The magical Elven bracers should be added at some point during the quest pack and I wouldn't mind to differentiate that from the Elven chainmail. Now I don't think the Elven chainmail should necessarily be an artifact, as the heroes are in a new geographical area you would think maybe that the elves would have different types of armor and weapons that the heroes might be able to buy, I'll be it for a much more expensive price. But I'm sure you've noticed that the chests and Quest treasures in this Quest pack are much greater than that of any other hero Quest expansion.
Speaking of geography, I need to respectfully disagree with the inclusion of mercenaries in this Quest pack. Certainly the human Mercenaries would be more at home in the empire or even up north in the Barbarian Quest pack where they're still humans there, but in the elvenquest pack if there's not Elvin mercenaries, maybe there should be a group of loyalists of Terrellia who are accompany the heroes on their ventures. However the problem there is that Terrellia's daughter is kidnapped and if she were to stage some sort of uprising with her people her daughter's life would be in very much danger. Isn't that why she asked for Mentors help in the first place? She needed a group of heroes unknown to the Elven world to save Millandrial, for if any hero was captured he could possibly deny affiliation to terrelia and thus save her daughter from danger. No this rescue mission needs to be completed with stealth. A large group of mercenaries human or Alvin would allow sinestra to see the heroes coming. Having a small group allows the heroes to sneak around the Elven Kingdom striking in various areas.
I suggest instead of adding mercenaries, to balance it out add a fifth hero the female, or in this case male elf, and reduce the ogre's body points to five. There should be enough spells at this juncture to go around. I think with these changes the game will balance out nicely.
I would also suggest creating miniatures for the Elven prospector and Milandreal. If they're going to follow the heroes around they need more than just a tile. It wouldn't hurt to throw in a werewolf as well should a hero should come to the werewolf curse.
Also, requests 9 and 10 if we're adding a fifth hero, why on Earth would you bring Milandreal, the prized Elvin Princess, into the middle of a battle? Split up the heroes at the end! Have one hero escort Milandrill to safety and get her off the board while the other heroes go finish off Sinestra.


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