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One-shot kill on Sinestra

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc, from the Elf Quest Pack: The Mage of the Mirror.

Re: One-shot kill on Sinestra

Postby The Admiral » Tuesday October 1st, 2019 3:39am

Pancho wrote:This thread blossomed back into life after I thought it was done. It’s made me think that if 100 of us played this quest, there would be 100 different rules used.

Does a table block line of sight? - not clear
Is Sinestra a monster? - not clear
Does she roll all her defence dice against the Bow, or just one - not clear

And so on. Such confusion :roll:


Ha, yes absolutely, but in my HQ world there is none :D


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Re: One-shot kill on Sinestra

Postby Pancho » Tuesday October 1st, 2019 7:56am

The Admiral wrote:
Pancho wrote:This thread blossomed back into life after I thought it was done. It’s made me think that if 100 of us played this quest, there would be 100 different rules used.

Does a table block line of sight? - not clear
Is Sinestra a monster? - not clear
Does she roll all her defence dice against the Bow, or just one - not clear

And so on. Such confusion :roll:


Ha, yes absolutely, but in my HQ world there is none :D

Morcar-Zargon needs to rule the game with an iron fist ;)

A lot of the suggestions made are feasible I guess, it's just important that the GM is consistent in the decisions he makes. I'm going to stick to previous game-nights and rule that tables don't block line of sight, and Bosses are classed as monsters. Only one die will be rolled in defence against the Bow.
I’m also going to stick with Sekundes suggestion that Sinestra has a magical barrier that only the Bow of Vindication can pierce, along with spells & spell scrolls. I'm of the opinion that many of the Bosses in HQ need some sort of boost to improve the game (not just Sinestra, but also the Witch Lord and the Frozen Horror off the top of my head).


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Re: One-shot kill on Sinestra

Postby wallydubbs » Tuesday October 1st, 2019 8:12am

I don't feel a regular table should block line of sight, but considering a Sorcerer's Table is a bit more bulky, it could block Line of Sight for a Dwarf, Goblin, or Ice Gremlin.

Sinestra IS as much a monster as the Witch Lord, Vilor or Festral, but I'm willing to go with technical terminology and an absent monster card to justify the lack of playtesting...

Since the Elven Bow of Vindication is already way too overpowered, I'd allow all monsters (including Sinestra)to roll their normal combat dice in defense; only 1 black shield is needed.

It's fine if everyone else chooses to play it a different way.
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Re: One-shot kill on Sinestra

Postby Kurgan » Saturday January 25th, 2020 4:35pm

I haven't played this quest yet, but my solution is if you want to make it a bit more "fair" to the bad guys, you can give her THIS (custom "Evil Wizard" card)...

Edit: I originally designed it for the Wizards of Zargon (by the time the Heroes face them, they'll be upgraded and it might be too easy to beat them), but I intended "skills" to mean spells, so weapons,
even magic weapons, have to break through that defense. If you don't have any blue dice, just count white shields for bad guy defense in this case.
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Re: One-shot kill on Sinestra

Postby Daedalus » Saturday October 16th, 2021 11:52am

Pancho wrote:
hightechartist wrote:Before you go changing and rules, note that you still need line-of-sight to attack with the BoV. Sinestra has the Sorcerer's Table furniture in front of her, and the rules aren't entirely clear on whether or not that blocks LOS, but also the other monsters in the room block it too. So you can't just open the door and shoot Sinestra. If the Evil Wizard is smart, he can make it impossible to attack Sinnestra until enough of her minions are destroyed.

. . . Does anybody play the rule that tables block line-of-sight? We never have but it could be a good addition.. . .

I do. Although a piece of furniture isn't listed with a wall, a closed door, or another miniature as preventing visibility, it certainly can obstruct a straight line drawn between tbe center heights of two miniatures. Center height works as the 3D analog of the center of a square the figure is on.

Both the EU and NA rules show how visibility is blocked if the LoS can't be drawn to at least half of a target miniature. A Good Rule of Thumb In the NA rules makes this explicit. Extending the LoS principle of the diagram into the third dimension logically argues for the inclusion of furniture or even figures to leave LOS blocked or unblocked.

As to the Altar/Sorcerer's Table blocking LoS to Sinestra, I'd say it does. The Sorcerer and Archmage figures are about the same.height.

505

Of course, LoS is a two-way street. Zargon would need to move Sinestra to the side in order to get a spell off, first moving an Elf Archer. Zargon could then block LoS with another monster to protect her again. The Heroes could probably get a narrow LoS open to her pretty fast through movement, however. Zargon should try to pin the Elf first.
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Re: One-shot kill on Sinestra

Postby Kurgan » Saturday October 16th, 2021 1:02pm

The table is the only piece of furniture that I would allow to "not block" LOS under NA rules. There is a combat card that allows the monsters to "tip up" the table and hide behind it so all ranged attacks that round miss, but that's the only exception to this house rule.

You could imagine that even if the furniture piece isn't a solid wall, maybe those tall bottles on the Alchemist bench, or the candles or something obstructs your aim and throws it off, or allows the monsters to kind of duck under it to avoid your shot that they otherwise would be exposed to. It works in action movies...

Now in the case of the Elven Bow of Vindication, it's supposed to be magically enhanced... but are these magically "monster seeking" arrows? Or just really powerful arrows? To prevent "wasting" the effect, Zargon could simply not allow it to be shot through furniture.

OR he could take the side of the heroes and just say it's able to pierce right through the furniture and hit the monster, killing it, even if its the final boss of the quest pack. That seems awfully anti-climactic, but unless it's the last arrow and this was their very last chance or they'd be utterly destroyed, maybe it's not appropriate? Feels like cheating, so it's not the call I'd make, but it's your call when it's your turn as the Evil Wizard Player.

I guess in the end you could do the old "fate/feat roll" type of thing. The hero player makes a plausible case why he would be able to do something that otherwise wouldn't be allowed in the rules as printed.

Roll one white die. If it's a skull, then the heroic feat succeeds (you're able to shoot through the gaps and hit the bad guy in the eye socket). If it fails, then he wasn't able to do it (and can't try it again this quest).


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