EQP: The Mage of the Mirror Remake Main Thread!

[AndYpsilon]

Hi guys.

As I am a huge fan of the old HQ editions with the oldschool artwork, miniatures and so on, I will only buy rerelease products if they really add value.

So, my question is: How would you rank MotM especially considering the storytelling and fun to play compared to the other expansions? Is it a great addon or more like nice to have for all who want a complete collection?

in my opinion storytelling dropped in quality after the basic set, Kellar‘s Keep and RotWL.

Thx for your opinions!

[Sinned]

Yesterday MotM arrived here in The Netherlands; 363 days after I received the first remake sets. (Base game, RotWL, KK)

4 boxed expansions in one year. I wonder if 2023 will/can deliver this again?

[Kurgan]

Hi guys.

As I am a huge fan of the old HQ editions with the oldschool artwork, miniatures and so on, I will only buy rerelease products if they really add value.

So, my question is: How would you rank MotM especially considering the storytelling and fun to play compared to the other expansions? Is it a great addon or more like nice to have for all who want a complete collection?

in my opinion storytelling dropped in quality after the basic set, Kellar‘s Keep and RotWL.

Thx for your opinions!

MOTM is similar to Frozen Horror in terms of glitches and oversights detracting from it, plus it has the difficulty is ramped up to 11. Quests are very long with tons of strong monsters (2-4x longer to complete!). It is a gauntlet, a marathon and possibly a slog for some. It would be frustrating for new players, especially with those key solo quests, unless fixes are used to give the hero more chances to get good items.

So Zargon will have to take stock and possibly edit to make it more fun. Frozen Horror (Barbarian Quest Pack) used the digital Into the Northlands for fixes. Mage of the Mirror (Elf Quest Pack) contains the fixes inside the book in 2022, but some more suggestions are forthcoming. So if you want to play Frozen Horror I recommend getting "Into the Northlands" online digital quest provided by Avalon Hill, and (if you can) also the official HeroQuest Companion App (yes, you may need BlueStacks if you don't have a smart phone and a VPN if you don't live in North America), but at least it's free!

Many owned these only for the miniatures and new tiles for custom adventures, the trouble was they were pulled from stores quickly and so are very rare, hence the remake's popularity (plus only released in parts of North America in 1992 originally). The extras are nice but not required.

[AndYpsilon]

Hi guys.

As I am a huge fan of the old HQ editions with the oldschool artwork, miniatures and so on, I will only buy rerelease products if they really add value.

So, my question is: How would you rank MotM especially considering the storytelling and fun to play compared to the other expansions? Is it a great addon or more like nice to have for all who want a complete collection?

in my opinion storytelling dropped in quality after the basic set, Kellar‘s Keep and RotWL.

Thx for your opinions!

MOTM is similar to Frozen Horror in terms of glitches and oversights detracting from it, plus it the difficulty is ramped up to 11. Quests are very long with tons of strong monsters. It is a gauntlet, a marathon and possibly a slog. So Zargon will have to take stock and possibly edit to make it more fun. Frozen Horror used the digital Into the Northlands for fixes. Frozen Horror contains the fixes inside the book, but some more suggestions are forthcoming.

Many owned these only for the miniatures and new tiles for custom adventures, the trouble was they were pulled from stores quickly and so are very rare, hence the remake's popularity (plus only released in parts of North America in 1992 originally). The extras are nice but not required.

Thx a lot, appreciate your opinion. So, sounds like I don’t really need this one once again.Really don’t like that they publish stuff that needs fixing afterwards to make it fun to play or even work.
I hope „Rise of the Dread Moon“ will at least reach the quality of KK or RotWL.

[Kurgan]

Oops, l made some mistakes in my post you quoted there... typos and things. I've re-edited it now so it makes more sense!

I would say out of the official expansions released thus far, ROTWL is the best of the lot in terms of story, tension, fun, despite not having fancy new miniatures or other swag extras. And Prophecy of Telor is the best of the new Mythic material.

Many have said that the other expansion whether US (EQP/BQP) or UK (ATOH/WOM) are basically designed to be cheap ways to destroy experienced heroes, and are more assets to fuel your imagination for your own custom adventures. That's not to say there isn't fun to be had, but they have a point...

What I should have said:

MOTM is similar to Frozen Horror in terms of glitches and oversights detracting from it, plus it has the difficulty is ramped up to 11. Quests are very long with tons of strong monsters (2-4x longer to complete!). It is a gauntlet, a marathon and possibly a slog for some. It would be frustrating for new players, especially with those key solo quests, unless fixes are used to give the hero more chances to get good items.

So Zargon will have to take stock and possibly edit to make it more fun. Frozen Horror (Barbarian Quest Pack) used the digital Into the Northlands for fixes. Mage of the Mirror (Elf Quest Pack) contains the fixes inside the book in 2022, but some more suggestions are forthcoming. So if you want to play Frozen Horror I recommend getting "Into the Northlands" online digital quest provided by Avalon Hill, and (if you can) also the official HeroQuest Companion App (yes, you may need BlueStacks if you don't have a smart phone and a VPN if you don't live in North America), but at least it's free!

Many owned these only for the miniatures and new tiles for custom adventures, the trouble was they were pulled from stores quickly and so are very rare, hence the remake's popularity (plus only released in parts of North America in 1992 originally). The extras are nice but not required.

So to clarify... I think they DID make some good fixes to Frozen Horror with "Into the Northlands." If you never owned it before it's fine. If you somehow still have the 1992 edition, download "Into the Northlands" for free (the 2022 remake of Frozen Horror has no changes to gameplay in the quest book).

For Mage of the Mirror, the fixes ARE in the book that comes in the box, so it could be worth getting, plus like the above it's way cheaper than tracking down a vintage copy (hundreds of dollars cheaper in fact!). Remember, they added these changes 30 years later, to a pack that very few people owned, much less remember playing!

If you suffer from "FOMO" then just wait for the companion app to give it to you for free or the free quest that will surely be coming out shortly after release and see if you think it is worth it for the new tiles and miniatures (you can always use proxies for the new characters).

[Kurgan]

Our own unboxing video of the new MOTM (thanks Darkhawk aka retrodh on twitch) is premiering (replay) on youtube this evening here.

(Mine still hasn't shipped from Amazon, so not expecting it tonight, sadly)

Few surprises here, but now it's in video format with some nice commentary.

[wallydubbs]

Hi guys.

As I am a huge fan of the old HQ editions with the oldschool artwork, miniatures and so on, I will only buy rerelease products if they really add value.

So, my question is: How would you rank MotM especially considering the storytelling and fun to play compared to the other expansions? Is it a great addon or more like nice to have for all who want a complete collection?

in my opinion storytelling dropped in quality after the basic set, Kellar‘s Keep and RotWL.

Thx for your opinions!

The storyline of Mage of the Mirror isn't bad but the game play is much more convoluted and difficult.
The problem with Mage of the Mirror and Frozen Horror (And to a lesser extent Against the Ogre Hoard and Wizard's of Morcar/Zargon) is that they were never playtested and in the remakes they did a shoddy job at fixing the issues. It takes a creative Zargon to fix some of these issues.

In my opinion Frozen Horror's difficulty is the most severe and I think the best way to fix it is adding a 5th Hero (preferably a 2nd Barbarian), giving the Wizard 4 spell groups instead of 3, allowing double blocks from the Polar Warbear's attacks, and some editing or mercenaries when it comes to Solo Quests.

Mage of the Mirror is not as difficult, but requires some forethought in the interpretation of some of the Elf Spells and artifacts. It's like whomever came up with these spells had their heart in the right place, but ran out of time to adjust the wording and exceptions... And when they remade it nobody cared for the correct interpretation and just reprinted them as is. Much like Frozen Horror this quest pack could be improved with the inclusion of a 5th hero, preferably an Elf, as the majority of artifacts are only allowed to be used by one.

If you have a dedicated group of heroes and actually care enough to make it work these quests are doable (editing required). Once I came up with an acceptable overview of the Elf Spells and lowered the Ogre Body Points Mage of the Mirror was more fun. Frozen Horror would still be difficult and cringe worthy in spots (there's not enough doors, a 2nd Sorcerer's Bench is needed, or you might fall into a bottomless pit with full health, etc. But the victory, much like Pandemic, feels earned.

[Kurgan]

Looking at vintage reviews, they praised BQP more highly because it had just such a variety of new creatures and tiles, while EQP felt a little more samey in their opinion. While EQP was rarer, BQP kind of had a reputation as the big ugly pack that nobody had but always wondered about so while it was a shock to here they were remaking it before anything else, it kind of makes sense looking back. If they could sell that and fix it up so people appreciated it, they probably figured they could handle any task after that.

So far the general public really hasn't gotten to see any remakes of anything else beyond what was released in North America back in the day. I was looking back over the classic leaflet flier for KK/ROTWL and it said "Available Oct 1991." Hard to believe it's been so long! ATOH and WOM are short, giving you only 7 or 5 quests compared to the 10, but once you realize there's 3 solo quests in each of the "hero" themed NA packs and the last one is a two parter it kind of makes a bit of sense. The formula was for hard difficulty. The notes show it was rushed and a lot of ideas were left on the cutting room floor (some that make the game a little less punishing or toiling).

A lot of people talk about how HeroQuest is "too easy" and such so Zargon needs to do stuff to make the game harder... not so with these later packs, if anything it's the opposite! A very different experience. But I think there's enough there for people to work with if they want to go on further adventures, either using the assets to make their own or trying to play what Avalon Hill has fitted together from the aftermath of 1992-93.

[Kurgan]

More and more people are reporting theirs being delivered or at least showing as "shipped." My US Amazon order changed specifically to read "expected by Jan 19th" and isn't showing shipped yet as of this post.

[Kurgan]

My MOTM box arrived today (after saying originally I would get it at 10pm and before that Jan 19th!).

Initial thoughts (after having seen Darkhawk's unboxing and several others being posted before and after ours!)...

...very small, tiny details I noticed in my own peek-through... that tape circle that seals the box is very easy to peel off cleanly, a real improvement from previous sets. I figured part of the reason for that cardboard partial sleeve was to protect the box from the tape removal (and help seal the box while still showing you the contents) but it's no big deal. The sleeve is smooth (no special texture) and the back is just white paper cardboard. Looks like you could easily fold it up and put it inside the box if you wanted. The sleeve has the miniature counts and such, while the real back cover of the box had the big picture of (young looking) Sinestra with the storyline that heavily emphasizes those solo quests.

The box has a much more pronounced linen texture finish like the cards. I mean, much more than the frozen horror box or the positively subtle texture of the mythic boxes. Many of the furniture parts appear "shiny." they're a little "prickly" with all the little viney bits and ornate details. While most of the furniture is pretty rigid (other than the weapons rack as one could imagine), the "scales" on the new alchemist bench are very clearly glued to the rest of the piece, and they are very bendy.

The "wall" tile that goes with the big throne room is pre-folded on the edges if anyone was curious, and it's of course much smaller than the "Zargon screen" we're all used to, as it's meant to be setup on the actual board during play.

The plastic "door bases" (for the mirrors) are a completely different type of plastic than the bendy stuff used for everything else... it feels very close to the plastic used in the 1990 door bases but with a matte surface texture. if anyone remembers playmobile from the 80's, it was kind of like that stuff they used (not the shiny plastic used on the people, but the rocky/stony/etc plastic).

The (monster) Elves really do look like identical twins other than the chest region being altered on the females (although some of the females have bigger eyebrows or unibrow I should say, who am I to judge elven beauty!). They are definitely more greenish than the blue hued frozen horror monsters.

Those Ogres WILL be re-painted dark blue by me... and while the rest of the figures easily come out of the candy trays, these guys are snug in there and you have to apply some real force to get them out of there (or push in from the bottom to pop them out).

Yes, the mysterious "dice tray" pit is there with nothing in it as others have pointed out.
No damage to my quest book, I lucked out there!