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Reworking Wall of Ice, of Flame and Stone

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc, from the Wizards of Morcar Quest Pack.

Reworking Wall of Ice, of Flame and Stone

Postby lestodante » Sunday August 8th, 2021 10:15am

As previously sayd, I thought the three magical walls should be very different while they actually are all the same and only have a different graphic. All of them has 1 BP and roll 6 Defence dice.
So my idea is to rework them is the following:
Wall of Stone: it blocks LoS for ranged attacks and spells, no one can cross it unless you use a pass through rock spell or until the wall is destroyed. It must be the most difficult of the three to break: DEF 6 dice, BP 3.

Wall of Ice: it blocks movement and LoS for ranged attacks/spells (the way is effectively blocked) but it is transparent so you can see through the ice and can still cast spells on figures placed on the other side of the wall. For example if I cast a fireball against someone on the other side it will crash against the wall of ice (causing damage to it); but I can cast a healing spell on someone on the other side because I can see them. Also it doesn't break "Courage" spells if monsters are on the other side (they're still visible). If attacked by fire weapons or fire spells it rolls half combat dice to defend. DEF 4, BP 3.

Wall of Flame: it is not a physical barrier and has no BP. Anyone can cross the flames but must roll 3 combat dice and will take damage for each skull rolled. Can be disabled with a Tempest or a Genie spell (or custom ice or water spells eventually). It doesn't block LoS. Any adiacent miniature must roll 1 Combat dice at the start of their turn and suffer 1 BP of damage if a skull is rolled, caused by the heat.


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Re: Reworking Wall of Ice, of Flame and Stone

Postby lestodante » Sunday August 8th, 2021 10:42am

Another thought...
since the Wall of Stone is a Protection spell and the other two are evil wizards spells, we may consider to use a magic wall against another one!
If a Wall of Flame is already placed, a Wall of Ice can not be cast on the same tiles, it will melt immediately leaving the Wall of Flame alive.
A Wall of Flame can be used to melt a Wall of Ice, leaving the flame alive.
A Wall of Stone can be cast over a Wall of Flame too. It will immediately suffocate the flames (no oxygen) leaving the Wall of Stone on its place.
No useful idea about using other magic walls against a Wall of Stone. The only I can think of is the ice may cause the stone become easier to break, reducing its defense dice from 6 to 4.


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Re: Reworking Wall of Ice, of Flame and Stone

Postby Kurgan » Sunday August 8th, 2021 12:00pm

How would you treat the "Ice Wall" chaos spell in BQP? One of many examples of similar sounding, but different spells across NA/EU editions. Would you change it or just consider it a different spell entirely?

That's what I'm doing with mine... I just utilize the spell how it is in its localization whenever possible. So Lightning from the Stormmaster (or Rust from the High Mage, etc.) would be different than the Lighting used by Chaos characters in the Game System/KK/ROTWL, etc.


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Re: Reworking Wall of Ice, of Flame and Stone

Postby lestodante » Monday August 9th, 2021 12:39pm

I like to consider it a different spell. Simlar, but different. And it is probably stronger because.
It occupies 4 squares instead of 2.
They magic ice ends if the spellcaster can no longer see it.
It can be broken in several piece (they are 4 separate tiles of magic ice).
You can cast it in a narrow corridor and put 4 magic ice in a line; check the example below, where the :blueorb: represents a magic ice tile, it can be a very hard barrier:
:gargoyle: :blueorb: :blueorb: :blueorb: :blueorb: :wizard: :dwarf: :barbarian: :elf:


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Re: Reworking Wall of Ice, of Flame and Stone

Postby Kurgan » Monday August 9th, 2021 4:25pm

Good point!


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Re: Reworking Wall of Ice, of Flame and Stone

Postby wallydubbs » Tuesday August 10th, 2021 2:11pm

lestodante wrote:Wall of Flame: it is not a physical barrier and has no BP. Anyone can cross the flames but must roll 3 combat dice and will take damage for each skull rolled. Can be disabled with a Tempest or a Genie spell (or custom ice or water spells eventually). It doesn't block LoS. Any adiacent miniature must roll 1 Combat dice at the start of their turn and suffer 1 BP of damage if a skull is rolled, caused by the heat.


I'd like to add in a suggestion: heroes under the spell Veil of Mist may pass through the Wall of Flame without taking damage.
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Re: Reworking Wall of Ice, of Flame and Stone

Postby lestodante » Tuesday August 10th, 2021 6:37pm

wallydubbs wrote:I'd like to add in a suggestion: heroes under the spell Veil of Mist may pass through the Wall of Flame without taking damage.


As discussed on the Veil of Mist topic, it can be if you consider this spell is causing the hero's body to become something like gas (so he can also pass through Ogres) or simply causes some fog around the hero. It can be the beginning of a long discussion :D
Or unless you consider the fog (that is basically water drops) to surround and protect the hero from the flames.


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Re: Reworking Wall of Ice, of Flame and Stone

Postby wallydubbs » Wednesday August 11th, 2021 10:05am

lestodante wrote:
wallydubbs wrote:I'd like to add in a suggestion: heroes under the spell Veil of Mist may pass through the Wall of Flame without taking damage.


As discussed on the Veil of Mist topic, it can be if you consider this spell is causing the hero's body to become something like gas (so he can also pass through Ogres) or simply causes some fog around the hero. It can be the beginning of a long discussion :D
Or unless you consider the fog (that is basically water drops) to surround and protect the hero from the flames.

I was indeed thinking of the latter. The hero won't catch fire because there's enough moisture around him to keep him from catching ablaze.
But then again at the same token, Swift Wind would suggest the hero's moving too fast through the flames to take sufficient damage. Maybe only roll 2 combat dice. Now it's just complicating things.
This kinda makes me wonder what effects "Disappear" would have. But now I'm overthinking things. Lol

Would there be any effect on any of these spells if "Cloak of Shadows" was cast over them? Probably not, they just couldn't be attacked.... good way to trap someone, though.
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Re: Reworking Wall of Ice, of Flame and Stone

Postby Daedalus » Sunday September 26th, 2021 8:35am

lestodante wrote:As previously sayd, I thought the three magical walls should be very different while they actually are all the same and only have a different graphic. All of them has 1 BP and roll 6 Defence dice.
So my idea is to rework them is the following:

Good point about the wall spells being too samey. Now they need some card text.

lestodante wrote:Wall of Stone: it blocks LoS for ranged attacks and spells, no one can cross it unless you use a pass through rock spell or until the wall is destroyed. It must be the most difficult of the three to break: DEF 6 dice, BP 3.

Wall of Stone

You may create a solid wall of
stone which covers two squares.
This wall has three Body points
and rolls six defence dice. Keep
this card to hand until the wall
is destroyed, then discard it.

I wonder if 3 BP is too much protection for the Wizard. He gets to roll white shields for defense, while a Sorcerer casting Wall of Ice just rolls black shields--the solid nature of stone is already figured in with this discrepancy. To keep Wall of Stone closer in line with Rock Skin, I'd leave the spell unchanged. However, if your looking for a boost, 2 Body points should be enough relative to Wall of Ice. Why not give Morcar a chance?

I left out mention of Pass through Rock since that spell already covers movement through (rock) walls. You could easily add "Pass Through Rock allows a Hero to move past this wall," before the last sentence, however.

lestodante wrote:Wall of Ice: it blocks movement and LoS for ranged attacks/spells (the way is effectively blocked) but it is transparent so you can see through the ice and can still cast spells on figures placed on the other side of the wall. For example if I cast a fireball against someone on the other side it will crash against the wall of ice (causing damage to it); but I can cast a healing spell on someone on the other side because I can see them. Also it doesn't break "Courage" spells if monsters are on the other side (they're still visible). If attacked by fire weapons or fire spells it rolls half combat dice to defend. DEF 4, BP 3.

Wall of Ice

The Sorcerer creates a clear wall
of ice which covers two squares.
It has three Body points and four
defence dice, or two dice vs. fire
attacks. This wall blocks all
weapons as well as spells cast
directly on a target to inflict
Body points of damage. Keep
this card to hand until the wall is
destroyed, and then discarded it.

lestodante wrote:Wall of Flame: it is not a physical barrier and has no BP. Anyone can cross the flames but must roll 3 combat dice and will take damage for each skull rolled. Can be disabled with a Tempest or a Genie spell (or custom ice or water spells eventually). It doesn't block LoS. Any adiacent miniature must roll 1 Combat dice at the start of their turn and suffer 1 BP of damage if a skull is rolled, caused by the heat.

Wall of Flame

The Sorcerer creates a magical
wall of flame which covers two
squares. The flames don't block
line of sight, but anyone passing
through must roll three combat
dice, one if standing adjacent.
Victims lose one Body point for
each skull rolled. Keep this card
to hand until the wall is ended
by a Tempest or Genie spell.

Allowing passage (a trapped door) at the cost of damage risk near or in the flames varies the spell quite a bit. The further adding of LoS (an open window) feels like a step too far that pretty much removes the quality of blocking provided by a wall, in my opinion. I'd recommend these changes:

Wall of Flame

The Sorcerer creates a magical
wall of flame which covers two
squares. Anyone passing
through the wall must roll three
combat dice, one if standing
adjacent. Victims lose one Body
point for each skull rolled. Keep
this card to hand until the wall is
cancelled by a Tempest or Genie
spell, and then discard it.

Whatever you choose to do, I hope these descriptions help make your spell ideas something you can share with the community--they're awesome!
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Re: Reworking Wall of Ice, of Flame and Stone

Postby Anderas » Sunday September 26th, 2021 9:12am

I gave the Wall of Ice a weakness against fire damage and the wall of fire a weakness against water spells. Then I gave the wall of stone the special rule that the Earthquake spell would remove it (in my game, the Wizard has access to the Earthquake spell). Apart from that, I kept it totally the original game card - after experimenting a lot, I found that the more I move away from Heroquest, the more my game becomes the standard RPG (Diablo, Exiled Kingdoms). So I made a big move back to Heroquest.

I like the idea that the ice wall would be transparent to some spells, and the fire wall would be transparent to movement (with damage) and I am thinking about putting the same on my cards.

What about the Ice Wall warping the line of sight for the spell cast through it - so maybe you have to roll a combat die, and on a white shield you miss the original target of the effect. Spell's lost, not effect takes place. I am not sure if this would fit on a standard game card, though.


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