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Re: Fireburst Trap

PostPosted: Friday January 28th, 2022 6:01pm
by lestodante
Jalapenotrellis wrote:I don't see why not just implement the UK movement rules for this expansion. Now, they can't backtrack their movement. There were many times when the 'wrong' player would be facing a doorway or who encountered the boss and could just backtrack. E.g. in Pit of Chaos, my players found him via the secret door, then turned around and ran away. In the UK rules, they would have had to proceed forward and take a hit

This rule was featured only in the first 1989 version of the European game. The second, revised, edition from 1990 deleted this rule, probably because it's weird that a hero can't go back on his steps.
So, when they created Wizards of Morcar this rule was already deleted.
Also, you would have to explain to your players why they can't perform simple actions they can usually do in real life. It's odd.

Re: Fireburst Trap

PostPosted: Friday January 28th, 2022 6:08pm
by Jalapenotrellis
So you're saying that rule was deleted, but they still created this Fireburst trap to work the same way as it would in the original version? That's really poor game creation.

I mean, they dealt with the change in the falling block trap mechanics ok. Flavor wise, can say "you enter an enchanted realm. You seem to lose the ability to backtrack." I think they will like the added twist for 5 quests.

Re: Fireburst Trap

PostPosted: Saturday February 12th, 2022 4:26pm
by wallydubbs
Jalapenotrellis wrote:So you're saying that rule was deleted, but they still created this Fireburst trap to work the same way as it would in the original version? That's really poor game creation.


I think it generally comes down to lack of playtesting. Any experienced player can tell you the additional Wizard spells in Wizard's of Morcar aren't up to par with the existing elemental spells. Nor are the evil spell caster spells adequate against fully equipped heroes (it seems they would only be effective against base stats).
Then there's the lack of gold found in Crypt of the Necromancer (gold much needed to buy Mercenariesfor the following quest), coupled with the fact that there's no epilogue or reward for completing the expansion.
There's also falling block traps that could permanently trap a hero (more common in Against the Ogre Horde).
I think all of these "mistakes" would've been caught had the game designers actually tested fans and gave them a Q&A. Much like Against the Ogre Horde and to a lesser extent of Frozen Horror and Mage of the Mirror, Wizard's of Marcar was slightly rushed through, although I can't say for the exact reason. But none of these expansions were as balanced as the game system, Keller's Keep and Return of the Witch Lord.

The mechanics of the Fireburst trap is one of these mistakes. I feel that if an experienced Zargon can find a way to work around all these quirks and make them work without too much alterations and it makes the game more balanced, by all means, give it a go. I tend to make alterations to fix these:
Fireburst Traps: only the Wizard (or elf if he has 5MP) can detect them on a search, and they can only be disarmed with a Tempest or Dispell spell. They can only be set off if a hero steps on the space marked in the quest book or a hero searches the room for treasure (as any normal trap would spring).
Falling Block Traps permanently trapping a hero: give 'em a secret door to get out, or if there's a chest in that room containing a Ring of Return or Pass Through Rock spell scroll.
Evil Wizard Spells: Replace some of their spells with a more effective North American counterpart Chaos Spell.
Lack of Gold on certain quests: add a reward of gold for completing the quests, like the Game System. I actually find it more satisfying to limit the gold found in the quests and just add the rewards for completing it.
Spells of Darkness: keep as is, but give Arrows of the Night an automattic 2 hits, monster defends via mind points.
Spells of Detection: Keep as is except for Clairvoyance, don't count shaded areas on the map as rooms (allowing them to try again if they choose it), and point out traps in the chosen room as well.
Spells of Protection: Keep as is except for Dispell, give Dispell multiple uses 1.) Force an enemy spell caster to discard a spell at random 2.) Allow it to disarm magical traps 3.) Cancel the effects of a spell on a hero currently afflicted by a Chaos spell.

Re: Fireburst Trap

PostPosted: Saturday February 12th, 2022 10:30pm
by Jalapenotrellis
I have decided, in light of lestodante's post, to have the fireburst trap create a one way magical portal to the room, allowing players in but not allowing the one who triggered it out. Same if they draw a fireburst trap from the treasure deck. This means they have to decide to risk being fortified in a corner against a wandering monster or risk not being able to leave the room against a fireburst trap.

I think that is the real point of the fireburst trap! They can't just avoid wandering monster hits now since fireburst is probably going to hurt worse.

Or I could allow anyone who didn't trigger the trap to still leave the room if drawn from a treasure deck.

Although, if they use the treasure Horde spell, could be pretty bad. I'm leaning toward the second interpretation...but that seems inconsistent. Maybe I'll do the first. They have like 17 full heal potions left from Against the Ogre Horde and some regular ones.

Yeah, gonna do the door is barred from exit interpretation if a fireburst trap is triggered for all in the room. Can still enter the room. Might give more use to the firewall token too lol.

Re: Fireburst Trap

PostPosted: Sunday February 13th, 2022 5:56am
by lestodante
Jalapenotrellis wrote:I have decided, in light of lestodante's post, to have the fireburst trap create a one way magical portal to the room, allowing players in but not allowing the one who triggered it out. Same if they draw a fireburst trap from the treasure deck. This means they have to decide to risk being fortified in a corner against a wandering monster or risk not being able to leave the room against a fireburst trap.


Yours is also a working solution for me!
The trap should only be placed AFTER the first hero enters the room. Explain the room are filled with a magical trap which allows heroes to enter but denying them to exit (until it explodes). As Daedalus suggested somewhere, the trap will explode AT THE END of Zargon's next turn so he will have at least one turn to attack with the monsters in the room.
Other heroes must decide what to do: leaving your friend alone against those monsters or helping him in the fight but risking to get involved in the fireburst explosion?
As my idea (randomimzed explosion) this will also increase tension in the players. The diference with mine is I allow Zargon to have more turns to use the monsters in the room and we don't know when the trap is going to explode. Since I allow heroes to exit the room, the trap will not explode if no hero is present.

Re: Fireburst Trap

PostPosted: Sunday February 13th, 2022 4:04pm
by Jalapenotrellis
My understanding is that these traps only appear in empty rooms. Ones you just opened that are empty, or ones that are empty, which allows the Search for Treasure action, which can draw a fireburst trap. I don't see monsters appearing in conflict with the fireburst trap. Am I missing something?

Re: Fireburst Trap

PostPosted: Sunday February 13th, 2022 5:53pm
by lestodante
in the wizard of Morcar they only affect empty rooms but in the Wizard Quest Pack they are also found in rooms with monsters.
This is why I wanted to find a good compromise with the rules.

Re: Fireburst Trap

PostPosted: Sunday February 13th, 2022 6:22pm
by Jalapenotrellis
Ah. I see. I prob will just have a rule mod when we hit that one if we do. So far just getting through the official stuff.