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Cloak of Shadows; Overpowered?

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc, from the Wizards of Morcar Quest Pack.

Re: Cloak of Shadows; Overpowered?

Postby wallydubbs » Friday October 26th, 2018 11:21pm

Jafazo wrote:Here's my take on it...

When the spell, Cloak of Shadows, uses the word Attack, it's referencing the Attack action recognized in Hero Quests rulebook, not the general idea I have about what an attack is. If the spell wanted to grant a target complete immunity from damage it would say that, but since it uses the word attack and attack is a keyword/term defined within HQ's rules, I have to translate the spells text as telling me that it's referencing the games keyword Attack action, not my own idea of what an attack is.

Once I realize this and I reread the text in the spell, Cloak of Shadows, it says to me, "No one within its area of effect may use the Attack action we explained in our rulebook, nor may anyone be attacked using the Attack action we explained in our rulebook, nor may anyone cast any spells as we explained within our rulebook." This means that the target can still be harmed with spells and other effects that aren't considered melee attacks as it explains in the rulebook, so all damage inflicting spells would work.

Magical throwing daggers would work because their damage, when thrown, are explained as simply always inflicting 1 body point of damage. We aren't told whether the damage is combat based or magical, such as if the dagger explodes with a magical burst of energy, so we can't effectively rule it out. The same goes for spell scrolls and the Elven Bow of Vindication, which allows the target a chance to avoid being killed by rolling a black shield on one combat die, but it doesn't specify that the target is defending against a combat based attack as explained in the Attack action. We could even argue that if it did, that the victim should be allowed to roll its defend dice, as explained in the Attack based action but since it isn't and is rolling only one automatic defend die, that the defend die does not represent his usual combat dice to defend.


I have to agree with Jafazo on this one, casting an offensive spell isn't necessarily the same as an attack.

However i feel a lot of people are overlooking another valid use for this spell: it is a safespace, yes, but the figure inside cannot cast spells and considering the spell is part of Wizard's of Morcar, it can be used to trap an Evil Wizard so he cannot cast spells from within. If you pin the evil spell caster between a wall and some heroes within the Cloak of Shadows you negate his spell casting ability, plus he can't attack a hero to get out, this allows other heroes to fight off remaining bad guys in the room or attempt to take him out with Ball of Flame or something.

Just the same, it would be really petty if the enemy wizard went into the Cloak of Shadows and refused to leave.
When I played Quest 6 from the Original System with my crew the first time an Orc killed the Barbarian after Grak used a sleep spell. The Wizard cast Courage on the Dwarf and when Grak was the last one in his line of sight I moved Grak out of his line of sight, causing him to lose courage. The heroes said "that was cheap." I agree, but how worse would it be if refused to leave the Cloak of Shadows?

There's helping yourself strategically in a bad guy way, and then there's intentionally being a prick to the heroes when it's supposed to be in good fun.
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Re: Cloak of Shadows; Overpowered?

Postby Anderas » Saturday October 27th, 2018 2:34am

I agree that the cloak of shadows has a problem. Especially if it is cast in the confined spaces of Heroquest Rooms.

I like to have some kind of pre boss room to drain some spells, before the boss fight comes. And I like to have the boss fight in a large space.
That said.


If the quest objective is a boss.
And the boss sees no more chance of surviving.
And there is the safe space in the form of a cloak of shadows available.

Of course I would issue a command in my best Zargon's voice and tell my lieutenant to hide in the cloak of shadows!

That'll teach them.

The original wording allows for being target of a spell even when you're inside, so if the hero Wizard still has a fire ball, he could hurt the hiding boss. Same the other way round, if heroes are hiding inside, a Wizard of Morcar may still cast a spell on them. That'd be even more hilarious especially if the spell is "command". :lol:

I just changed the wording of my personal cloak of shadows playcard to be more like that ( I was stopping cast actions from outside to the inside. I just re-allowed them. I think they're hilarious.)

My wording is now:

Place or remove the 2x4 Cloak of Shadows.

Figures within the Cloak can’t be targeted by attacks and neither take attack actions nor cast actions. Search actions ignore cloaked spaces.
The cloak disappears after 5 turns.


And yes, it disappears after some turns. That's in express, to prevent probably quest-destroying effects from happening.
The "Place or remove" is there because my wizards can probably cast it several times if they want.
|_P

And to remove Grak from LOS to end Courage, that's not cheap. That's just as it should be.

:banana: :banana: :2cents: |_P


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Re: Cloak of Shadows; Overpowered?

Postby Jalapenotrellis » Sunday January 30th, 2022 1:43am

Good discussion. I can see how the interpretation of being allowed to cast into it can create some interesting possibilities between the wizard and the evil wizards. I can also see how it would be an area of heavy obscurity and block line of sight similar to Dungeons & Dragons 5e. My assumption is the intent is that it is magical darkness and you cannot cast into it because casting requires line of sight. However, I also see that it could be very overpowered against every wizard they encounter if they just cast it on the wizard and then corner him. However, for them to do that, they would be one vs. many outside of the darkness, so it may not be that powerful as imagined since the other monsters could then gang up on whoever is trying to solo the rest of the group.
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Re: Cloak of Shadows; Overpowered?

Postby wallydubbs » Thursday February 10th, 2022 7:02pm

I recall playing Against the Ogre Hoarde with my crew, might have been Lair of the Ogre Hoarde or Carrion Halls (the one with Tograk and Nexreal). The heroes got separated early on when the Barbarian went through a Secret Door and triggered a Falling Block Trap, only to face a Gargoyle in the very same room. Wizard followed him in, casting Pass Through Rock.
While the Elf and Dwarf went the other way, Barbarian and Wizard carried on to face Nexreal. The room just before Nexreal there are some skeletons and a Pit of Darkness. The Barbarian fell into the Pit of Darkness and was going to be surrounded by Skeletons, but the Wizard cast Cloak of Shadows to protect them both. This essentially "trapped" them both as there was no way to attack the skeletons from within. The Wizard, being in the Cloak of Shadows himself could not cast spells, so he couldn't use Veil of Mist to get the Barbarian out. Fortunately, Barbarian still had Dust of Disappearance from Return of the Witch Lord, used that to get past the Skeletons into Nexreal's room and bring the fight to them.
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