Against the Ogre Horde 2024 Remake Edition Suggestions

[HispaZargon]

Unfortunatelly I think the same as wallydubbs, I would be so surprised if a big refurbishing would be made to the expansion. It would not follow the decisions we are seeing made by Hasbro until now.

[Aki]

A treatment like FH is enough for me, adding a quest and artifacts

[The Admiral]

As they have already changed the Ogres in MotM away from the original 10BP's and much closer to the AtOH ogres, I think they will stick with that as a base. I would hope we get stone doors and maybe iron and wooden doors along with the ogre throne.

I think the biggest question for me is the spell tokens. As stated before, I think we will get spell cards with maybe small tokens to discard each time the spell is cast, but this is definitely the biggest grey area for me. I hope this is what they do.

[Kurgan]

The Ogre tokens make a lot of sense in how they work (and they still fit on the poker size hero cards). Given ROTDM I wouldn't completely rule those out yet. But then if the EU community has rejected the tokens and are saying so, and AH finds a better gameplay mechanic, perhaps they'll go with that. I hope they preserve it though!

Thanks to SteveRS2000 for posting yet another link, Malcadon and seekhashem for a great conversation: https://www.board-game.co.uk/product/heroquest-ogre-horde-quest-pack/

Note the again similar date and price point (to the one that was posted earlier: https://thirstymeeples.co.uk/products/heroquest-ogre-horde-quest-pack?variant=40694624026647&currency=GBP.

[therealshrek]

I am sure there are already similar if not identical comments. But for me it is easy.
Wizards of Morcar adds the 3x Wizard Solo Quest, and Against the Ogre hoard adds the 3x Dwarven Solo quest.
Likewise since we received a 3rd Elf, and a 3rd Barbarian, they add a 3rd dwarf to the Ogre expansion (perhaps even a new class, a female dwarven Priest)
and for Wizards, they give us a playable female Orc Shaman. (Take advantage of those cool orc Shaman spells as a player character)

Onto a more important subject, Ogres and Hit points. Originally the US Ogres were 10 HP, and they have been nerfed in the new elf pack.
I for one count that as the new "Uk Ogre" stats, and my Ogres still have 10. But considering how the Ogre hoard had Champions, Heroes and Warlords, etc.
We need to see the difference between them, here is what I did for the old HQ, based on stats from WFRP, and the WFB system for champs, heroes, and warlords.

Ogres are large monsters, granting them +2 dam with any weapon, and can wield 2h weapons with 1h. All ogres can throw boulders for 4 att. and wear a Gut Shield for added protection.
Standard Ogre Warriors : 5 Att, 4 Def, 5 Body, 1 Mind, Move 6. They use a club. **This is what you see in the new elf pack**
Ogre Champions: 5 Att, 4 Def, 6 Body, 1 Mind, move 6. They use a Broad Axe (which can be thrown)
Ogre Warrior Hero: 6 Att, 4 Def, 7 Body, 2 Mind, move 6. They use a Battle Axe.
Ogre Chieftain: 5 Att + 5 Att, 5 Def, 8 Body, 2 Mind, move 4. They duel wield a Broad Axe (which can be thrown) and a Bladed Gauntlet, with a Helmet.
Ogre Shaman: 4 Att Diag. 4 Def, 9 Body, 5 Mind, move 6. Tree Staff, All Shaman Spells, wears robes.
Ogre Warlord: 5 Att + 5 Att, 5 Def, 10 Body, 5 Mind, move 5. Broad axe (which can be thrown) and a Bladed Gauntlet, with a Helmet.
Wild Ogre: 6 Att, 4 Def, 10 Body, 1 Mind, Move 6. weapon varies. (new designation for old school US Ogre.)
Mercenary Ogre: 6 Att, 4 Def, (5/10 Body)*, 1 Mind, Move 6. Battle Axe. Using the new reputation rules for hiring Mercenaries, you can hire a Merc Ogre
by spending 1 reputation point, AND paying him 200gold. As a hired Mercenary they only have 5 HPs. Hired Merc Ogres can carry x2 equipment.
They count as +2 for str test (opening stone doors) This could be a bonus mini for the Ogre Hoard, since most of the other packs add Mercs.

[Kurgan]

And the Orcs and Goblin figures with ranged weapons...

[therealshrek]

Yes orc and goblin archers , if you dont have Battlemasters....
And we could use some skeleton archers too, but thats another story.

[Aki]

I am sure there are already similar if not identical comments. But for me it is easy.
Wizards of Morcar adds the 3x Wizard Solo Quest, and Against the Ogre hoard adds the 3x Dwarven Solo quest.
Likewise since we received a 3rd Elf, and a 3rd Barbarian, they add a 3rd dwarf to the Ogre expansion (perhaps even a new class, a female dwarven Priest)
and for Wizards, they give us a playable female Orc Shaman. (Take advantage of those cool orc Shaman spells as a player character)

Onto a more important subject, Ogres and Hit points. Originally the US Ogres were 10 HP, and they have been nerfed in the new elf pack.
I for one count that as the new "Uk Ogre" stats, and my Ogres still have 10. But considering how the Ogre hoard had Champions, Heroes and Warlords, etc.
We need to see the difference between them, here is what I did for the old HQ, based on stats from WFRP, and the WFB system for champs, heroes, and warlords.

Ogres are large monsters, granting them +2 dam with any weapon, and can wield 2h weapons with 1h. All ogres can throw boulders for 4 att. and wear a Gut Shield for added protection.
Standard Ogre Warriors : 5 Att, 4 Def, 5 Body, 1 Mind, Move 6. They use a club. **This is what you see in the new elf pack**
Ogre Champions: 5 Att, 4 Def, 6 Body, 1 Mind, move 6. They use a Broad Axe (which can be thrown)
Ogre Warrior Hero: 6 Att, 4 Def, 7 Body, 2 Mind, move 6. They use a Battle Axe.
Ogre Chieftain: 5 Att + 5 Att, 5 Def, 8 Body, 2 Mind, move 4. They duel wield a Broad Axe (which can be thrown) and a Bladed Gauntlet, with a Helmet.
Ogre Shaman: 4 Att Diag. 4 Def, 9 Body, 5 Mind, move 6. Tree Staff, All Shaman Spells, wears robes.
Ogre Warlord: 5 Att + 5 Att, 5 Def, 10 Body, 5 Mind, move 5. Broad axe (which can be thrown) and a Bladed Gauntlet, with a Helmet.
Wild Ogre: 6 Att, 4 Def, 10 Body, 1 Mind, Move 6. weapon varies. (new designation for old school US Ogre.)
Mercenary Ogre: 6 Att, 4 Def, (5/10 Body)*, 1 Mind, Move 6. Battle Axe. Using the new reputation rules for hiring Mercenaries, you can hire a Merc Ogre
by spending 1 reputation point, AND paying him 200gold. As a hired Mercenary they only have 5 HPs. Hired Merc Ogres can carry x2 equipment.
They count as +2 for str test (opening stone doors) This could be a bonus mini for the Ogre Hoard, since most of the other packs add Mercs.

Too good to be true............

[Mistral]

I am sure there are already similar if not identical comments. But for me it is easy.
Wizards of Morcar adds the 3x Wizard Solo Quest, and Against the Ogre hoard adds the 3x Dwarven Solo quest.
Likewise since we received a 3rd Elf, and a 3rd Barbarian, they add a 3rd dwarf to the Ogre expansion (perhaps even a new class, a female dwarven Priest)
and for Wizards, they give us a playable female Orc Shaman. (Take advantage of those cool orc Shaman spells as a player character)

Onto a more important subject, Ogres and Hit points. Originally the US Ogres were 10 HP, and they have been nerfed in the new elf pack.
I for one count that as the new "Uk Ogre" stats, and my Ogres still have 10. But considering how the Ogre hoard had Champions, Heroes and Warlords, etc.
We need to see the difference between them, here is what I did for the old HQ, based on stats from WFRP, and the WFB system for champs, heroes, and warlords.

Ogres are large monsters, granting them +2 dam with any weapon, and can wield 2h weapons with 1h. All ogres can throw boulders for 4 att. and wear a Gut Shield for added protection.
Standard Ogre Warriors : 5 Att, 4 Def, 5 Body, 1 Mind, Move 6. They use a club. **This is what you see in the new elf pack**
Ogre Champions: 5 Att, 4 Def, 6 Body, 1 Mind, move 6. They use a Broad Axe (which can be thrown)
Ogre Warrior Hero: 6 Att, 4 Def, 7 Body, 2 Mind, move 6. They use a Battle Axe.
Ogre Chieftain: 5 Att + 5 Att, 5 Def, 8 Body, 2 Mind, move 4. They duel wield a Broad Axe (which can be thrown) and a Bladed Gauntlet, with a Helmet.
Ogre Shaman: 4 Att Diag. 4 Def, 9 Body, 5 Mind, move 6. Tree Staff, All Shaman Spells, wears robes.
Ogre Warlord: 5 Att + 5 Att, 5 Def, 10 Body, 5 Mind, move 5. Broad axe (which can be thrown) and a Bladed Gauntlet, with a Helmet.
Wild Ogre: 6 Att, 4 Def, 10 Body, 1 Mind, Move 6. weapon varies. (new designation for old school US Ogre.)
Mercenary Ogre: 6 Att, 4 Def, (5/10 Body)*, 1 Mind, Move 6. Battle Axe. Using the new reputation rules for hiring Mercenaries, you can hire a Merc Ogre
by spending 1 reputation point, AND paying him 200gold. As a hired Mercenary they only have 5 HPs. Hired Merc Ogres can carry x2 equipment.
They count as +2 for str test (opening stone doors) This could be a bonus mini for the Ogre Hoard, since most of the other packs add Mercs.

Why would Hasbro add a female Dwarf or Wizard to these expansions when they could save those for future expansions and cash further on this IP?
Ogre Horde seems packed full as it is, though an extra hero to Wizards of Morcar/Zargon to add quests and content does make sense.
Also: will they add more Mercs to WoZ on top of those in Frozen Horror? But that's another topic...

[Kurgan]

I think people are concerned (perhaps even worried) that these other expansions may never be made, so if they want to include a small or alternate character, they will shoe-horn them in where they can. It makes one wonder if we're facing a similar situation in 2024 to 1992... where if those on the inside new things were wrapping up they tried to get as many of their creations out as possible, even if they weren't properly finished and contextualized.

BUT, that's speculation, no official announcements have been made about rolling back expansions or cancelling anything. We only know officially about the departure of the project lead and social media guy from Avalon Hill (right?). So for all we know nothing will be affected. Whose decision is it to promote Dwarf & Wizard quest packs (whether based on legacy drafts or brand new)? Somebody at Hasbro has to approve them. But will there be a new creative direction? I don't think Encarmine when he was still at AH (still feels weird to say it like that) ever dropped any public confirmation on any of this... at best we have his comments from the GenCon interviews, where he expressed that they didn't feel obligated to release something that was never released, or to feel obligated not to change something that was "broken" (having learned their lessons on the 1992 projects). Would the next project leader feel the same?

Would I want there to be a female Dwarf in ATOH? Sure. I don't think by doing that they are forever cutting off the possibility of a future Dwarf focused expansion. Right now I think it's just speculation and wishful thinking as opposed to being based on anything solid or concrete. Is there a rumor to this effect that I missed?

In 1992, the MB team that was working on the hero themed expansions talked about making their future Dwarf quest pack (which was never finished, tentatively titled the Hammer of Hadrakka or Curse of the Hammer in which you either had to destroy the hammer, or rescue it, depending upon the draft) similar in theme to Kellar's Keep. I recall reading various fans over the years trying to say the Kellar's Keep was "really" the Dwarf quest pack (and Return of the Witch Lord was "really" the Wizard quest pack, while others said that Wizards of Morcar was "really" the Wizard quest pack). But those other packs were fully intended to follow the same template as Mage of the Mirror and Frozen Horror. There's nothing other than the setting that really fulfills that for any of the previously released packs, but it is interesting that they were focusing on some kind of underground/mountain/mine theme for at least part of the adventure (one could argue that ATOH also has a bit of that, leading again some to speculate this is a place to declare it the "dwarf" pack, even though you'd really have to add new content I think to make it anymore of a Dwarf pack than something like KK).

To me a hero focused pack ought to be more than just the setting, it should also have pieces that reflect that, and it should have unique items or rules to enhance a particular hero. Some may disagree saying that's a greedy way to create these expansions because then it leads to the conclusion that you have to "buy them all" to make the Heroes equal... that without this one or more will be more "OP" than the others (see Barbarian and Elf each getting a boost in BP/MP from their expansions while the Wizard and Dwarf don't get these unless you homebrew them too). Of course I don't NEED a $45 expansion to say that my Dwarf gets 2 extra Bp and 1 extra MP, but would it be cool? Absolutely.

I think the issue floating around in the background is there is still a kind of assumption/expectation or desire that AH will continue to find ways to release the "missing" (from retail and the global market) Haslab contents. The sex swapped alternate heroes weren't even a Mythic exclusive (being included with the Heroic tier as well). They were declared a Hasbro Pulse exclusive (but that just means buying it from the website). I think the sculpt we got for the male Elf in MOTM remake was superior to what we got in Mythic. I'd like to see more of that. So I wouldn't be upset if we got a different female Dwarf sculpt in this or any other pack in the future. But it feels fitting that we should get her sometime, somewhere and not just for a limited time. I really hope they don't move back to store/region exclusives again in the future.