Heroes return full health between quests as series, right?

[cornixt]

The quests weren't numbered, they only had an order by being on the next page of the booklet. On our first playing, we picked quests randomly, which we only found out wasn't a good idea when two of the quests were directly related. If the rulebook tells you to do the quests in order then we missed that part.

[Kurgan]

Quest numbering was added in the North American edition it's true (I keep forgetting). There's a natural progression and flow of difficulty with the order of quests in each book though, so that could have been another clue that they were not meant to just be played randomly... even if in fact some people did that.

Nice to know how others played it! It's good to remember that the NA and EU had different expectations. Like we never would have thought about attacking each other in the US edition but more of that sort of thing was possible and even encouraged (at least as training) in the European editions.

[The Admiral]

Just looking for confirmation that if the quests are played as a series, the heroes/Champions still return to full health between quests as they get their spells back too. They just can't spend money or sell items found. My group didn't see a strong downside to not playing them as a series due to the 20 full heal potions they get between them. Seems like a no brainer, since they didn't change their order or spells prepared anyways for the last two expansions.

For me it depends on the situation. If the Heroes are stepping through a door, or ascending some stairs straight onto the next quest, then I allow absolutely no recovery of BP, MP or spells. I also allow no recovery in a harsh barren environment like the northern chaos wastes even if there is time between linked quests.

If there is a very limited time (approx 1-2 days) between quests in a resource rich environment (e.g. Empire), or a longer time in a resource poor environment (e.g. Badlands), then I allow limited recovery. This is very subjective and I will make a judgement call for each situation. Limited recovery is half of all BP, MP and used spells back, rounded down.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

The quests weren't numbered, they only had an order by being on the next page of the booklet. On our first playing, we picked quests randomly, which we only found out wasn't a good idea when two of the quests were directly related. If the rulebook tells you to do the quests in order then we missed that part.

Once you have played through “The Trial” you are ready to undertake the other Quests. These should be played through in the order they appear in the Quest Book.

[Kurgan]

Just looking for confirmation that if the quests are played as a series, the heroes/Champions still return to full health between quests as they get their spells back too. They just can't spend money or sell items found. My group didn't see a strong downside to not playing them as a series due to the 20 full heal potions they get between them. Seems like a no brainer, since they didn't change their order or spells prepared anyways for the last two expansions.

For me it depends on the situation. If the Heroes are stepping through a door, or ascending some stairs straight onto the next quest, then I allow absolutely no recovery of BP, MP or spells. I also allow no recovery in a harsh barren environment like the northern chaos wastes even if there is time between linked quests.

If there is a very limited time (approx 1-2 days) between quests in a resource rich environment (e.g. Empire), or a longer time in a resource poor environment (e.g. Badlands), then I allow limited recovery. This is very subjective and I will make a judgement call for each situation. Limited recovery is half of all BP, MP and used spells back, rounded down.

You can do what you like but the Frozen Horror mentions nearby villages and paths back to town between quests. Even so the heroes could "camp out" between quests to heal. This pack is already so brutally difficult, preventing healing and shopping between quests (not just 9-10) in this and MOTM is just a recipe for a TPK, unless you are making other changes to bring the crushing difficulty down. At least ROTDM puts mid-quest shops in on occasion to give you (almost complete) healing and shopping.

[The Admiral]

MotM is the closest we have come to a TPK since we started playing again with my discovery of the NA version in the early noughties. There was no recovery between directly linked quests (4-10 I think), but we didn't play Evil Wizard cards back then. The party went in strong with the Main Elf, 4 other standard heroes and the female elf as a special NPC, plus 15 henchmen. Everyone died except the elf on 2 BP's with a single healing potion left. Brutal but great fun!

[Kurgan]

Like I said, if you make adjustments to mitigate the difficulty, so be it. Playing MOTM or FH as written is way too hard on its own. It's an exercise in frustration, one based more on luck than skill. Granted, if you start those games with fully equipped heroes, that helps a lot but even the tweaks made for the remake MOTM doesn't help much (the Ogres encountered in group quests take only half as much time to kill, you get some more gold and the Elf gets a slight boost in quest 1 with 2 BP).

[The Admiral]

In quests we play as a series, recovery, shopping etc. depends on the situation between quests:
1) Direct traverse from one quest to the next i.e. through a door or up and down some stairs = nothing. There is no shopping and no recovery of anything, such as BP/MP's, spells, and one use artefacts. How would stepping through a door let you get better?
2) Limited time between quests, or more extended time, but the heroes are travelling through desolate terrain = Limited recovery. No shopping. Recover half BP/MP's and spells (rounded up) and one use artefacts can be used again.
3) Other situations = full recovery and shopping.

This can be harsh in multi-quest situations such as FH. We usually mitigate this by adding an extra Hero or two, and with 3 to 4 henchmen per hero. Also we play NA rules on taking healing portions to save a hero from death.

This method is more realistic to me. The party gears up with stuff from the shop and hiring henchmen and then set off down the dungeon to succeed or never return. There has, in over 30 years of playing this way (alot) only ever been one total party wipe out (Dark Company), although we came close in TMitM when out of a party of 6 Heroes and 15 henchmen only the Elf survived on 2BP's with 1 healing potion left.

[Kurgan]

Why do this? Is the "increased realism" that important to people, or is it because we are dealing with a party of over equipped super heroes who have too many potions, scrolls, etc and seem unstoppable? Another way to cut down on this would simply be to raise the prices of Alchemist shop healing potions (or make gold less plentiful, whichever is easiest, maybe both).

Very rarely do any of the official quests state you don't automatically heal and have access to shops between quests. Dark Company is one (it being basically a four parter self contained advanced adventure, under the EU rules), and the quest 9-10 path for MOTM and FH are another. Rise of the Dread Moon imposes the restriction on certain quests but even then not completely... there are opportunities for mid-quest healing at the Hideout and merchants that appear to give you access to the Underground market at times (the longest stretch is 3 quests, but with an opportunity to visit at least one shop and one hideout within that duration, the app version stretches it out to 5 quests, oddly enough; the hideout shows up mid-quest three times and the underground market twice if I recall correctly).

Even as grueling as Dark Company was intended to be, it also included "Shrines" where you could have a chance to regain lost body points and even previously used spells! (this is incidentally the only official instance of a quest restoring previously defeated monsters if you returned to the same board map a second time).

Prophecy of Telor has a stretch of 6 quests in which you aren't allowed to shop in between (and one more instance of a two parter with no shopping before the end).

Avalon Hill, like Milton Bradley before them obviously realize that there are lots of fans out there who WANT to have the "no restore between quests" homebrew in there, so they worked with that, but you notice they gave other opportunities rather than just flat out making it a blanket thing with no other compensation.

In a first for official HQ, Jungles of Delthrak explicitly allows you to change your turn order mid-quest! (not counting of course the "activation" thing from the Arena modes in ATOH).

Again, you do what you like, but wanting to make it "more realistic" should be weighed with the other risks... like making the quest too difficult, eliminating some of the fun (shopping is fun... a lot more fun than just carrying thousands of gold coins with you and finding yet more you can't use possibly for multiple sessions to come), and stopping opportunities (spells don't return so good luck if you picked a spell caster character!).

Now if you allow everything mid-quest, I guess you're doing the same thing as allowing it between quests, just drawing it out a little more, but only marginally increasing the difficulty. But making each expansion essentially a single 10 part quest to me seems like a very bad idea if you make no other tweaks to compensate.

ATOH's remake didn't even bother with a "quests as a series" optional rule, but even in the original version it is explicit that mind points restore between quests (and body points strongly implied to do so, regardless of if you chose the large healing potion option). ATOH's restrictions originally prevented the Elf & Wizard from changing their spells between quests and visits to the Armory but not much else.

The (1990 ATOH) restrictions on not shopping between quests in this format isn't that big a deal when you consider at least lore-wise they expect you've completed the GS already (which means you've likely bought all the equipment you care to) if not also KK & ROTWL beforehand. And since there were no Alchemist Shops in the EU editions, not much to spend your gold on at that point (mercenaries being introduced in Wizards of Morcar released years after this one). Of course ATOH remake didn't add an Alchemist shop, so whether you used one or not is up to you. The remake edition allows you to essentially farm supplies by playing random Arena mode matches between quests (well, if Zargon doesn't mind.. at the very least there's a chance of the heroes dying in the attempt!)... and it doesn't say you can't visit the Armory between quests.

Do whatever you want at your table, but in my humble opinion a complete blank restriction on between quest help (as if the entire campaign was a single quest) with no other changes is a recipe for disaster.

[The Admiral]

Why do this? Is the "increased realism" that important to people, or is it because we are dealing with a party of over equipped super heroes who have too many potions, scrolls, etc and seem unstoppable? Another way to cut down on this would simply be to raise the prices of Alchemist shop healing potions (or make gold less plentiful, whichever is easiest, maybe both).

Very rarely do any of the official quests state you don't automatically heal and have access to shops between quests. Dark Company is one (it being basically a four parter self contained advanced adventure, under the EU rules), and the quest 9-10 path for MOTM and FH are another. Rise of the Dread Moon imposes the restriction on certain quests but even then not completely... there are opportunities for mid-quest healing at the Hideout and merchants that appear to give you access to the Underground market at times (the longest stretch is 3 quests, but with an opportunity to visit at least one shop and one hideout within that duration, the app version stretches it out to 5 quests, oddly enough; the hideout shows up mid-quest three times and the underground market twice if I recall correctly).

Even as grueling as Dark Company was intended to be, it also included "Shrines" where you could have a chance to regain lost body points and even previously used spells! (this is incidentally the only official instance of a quest restoring previously defeated monsters if you returned to the same board map a second time).

Prophecy of Telor has a stretch of 6 quests in which you aren't allowed to shop in between (and one more instance of a two parter with no shopping before the end).

Avalon Hill, like Milton Bradley before them obviously realize that there are lots of fans out there who WANT to have the "no restore between quests" homebrew in there, so they worked with that, but you notice they gave other opportunities rather than just flat out making it a blanket thing with no other compensation.

In a first for official HQ, Jungles of Delthrak explicitly allows you to change your turn order mid-quest! (not counting of course the "activation" thing from the Arena modes in ATOH).

Again, you do what you like, but wanting to make it "more realistic" should be weighed with the other risks... like making the quest too difficult, eliminating some of the fun (shopping is fun... a lot more fun than just carrying thousands of gold coins with you and finding yet more you can't use possibly for multiple sessions to come), and stopping opportunities (spells don't return so good luck if you picked a spell caster character!).

Now if you allow everything mid-quest, I guess you're doing the same thing as allowing it between quests, just drawing it out a little more, but only marginally increasing the difficulty. But making each expansion essentially a single 10 part quest to me seems like a very bad idea if you make no other tweaks to compensate.

ATOH's remake didn't even bother with a "quests as a series" optional rule, but even in the original version it is explicit that mind points restore between quests (and body points strongly implied to do so, regardless of if you chose the large healing potion option). ATOH's restrictions originally prevented the Elf & Wizard from changing their spells between quests and visits to the Armory but not much else.

The (1990 ATOH) restrictions on not shopping between quests in this format isn't that big a deal when you consider at least lore-wise they expect you've completed the GS already (which means you've likely bought all the equipment you care to) if not also KK & ROTWL beforehand. And since there were no Alchemist Shops in the EU editions, not much to spend your gold on at that point (mercenaries being introduced in Wizards of Morcar released years after this one). Of course ATOH remake didn't add an Alchemist shop, so whether you used one or not is up to you. The remake edition allows you to essentially farm supplies by playing random Arena mode matches between quests (well, if Zargon doesn't mind.. at the very least there's a chance of the heroes dying in the attempt!)... and it doesn't say you can't visit the Armory between quests.

Do whatever you want at your table, but in my humble opinion a complete blank restriction on between quest help (as if the entire campaign was a single quest) with no other changes is a recipe for disaster.

Yes, increased realism. The difficulty isn't really a problem and I am usually having to increase the difficulty level such as adding Evil Wizard cards. Shopping and hiring henchmen are still fun and only a one off in certain quests. Take TSQT for example, here the quests were in four parts: 3, 3, 3 and 5 so 4 opportunities to shop. I try and tailor the quest to the party, so something long and arduous will have a strong party while something like TSQT will have a weak party. As to the Spellcasters, they actually end up being some of the most valued members as they get all the scrolls and magic items that it would be a waste for a Barbarian to be using. In fact our main, and original wizard, is accepted as THE strongest character after working out he could probably defeat all the others combined!

There certainly is an element of super heroes with some of our parties as some of the heroes have done multiple quests over the years and are now very powerful.

As I said, the only complete disaster was Dark Company and that was 30 years ago, but there was a reason behind that. In the 4th quest of WoM my brother's Barbarian abandoned my Wizard to die. I obviously took a fresh one for Dark Company, but unlike his predecessor, who may have given the Barbarian a few helpful hints such as 'I think we've been this way before' the new guy was a little more recalcitrant, and my brother, deprived of a usually abnormally prescient wizard (who is also the EW) went round in circles to his, and everyone's death. It was sort of fitting as that was the last quest of our initial early 90's foray into EU HQ.

But as you say, each to their own. It works well for us and we enjoy it that way. In fact next week I'm off to my brother's to finish 'Crossroads of the World'. This has been an epic, and none of the heroes have fully recovered for a long time now. They played Karak Vlag, then through the portal up into the chaos wastes, then south through the wastes to the Darklands which is where they are now. Some of the quests have shops to buy things and there is one coming up where they can hire Orc and Ogre mercs. They have rescued Dwarf miners who have joined them, lost a Hero to chaos, found a pit fighter, and the Wizard (an Alchemist) now has an Ice Magic spell book. The quests are really well written and the story sort of writes itself. The only problem is the next part, although apparently written by clmkay has never been published. So, when they hit the howling wastes south of the Demon's Stump the party is going to get split up in the violent storms. Half will be driven east into the mountains of Mourn to meet a halfing druid and his pet wolf to play AtOH, and the other half will go south to pigbarter where they will meet an explorer and a berserker who will tell them of a lost dwarven kingdom in the jungles across the sea of dread....