So yes, this thread is going to be MOSTLY SPECULATION, I want to make that clear.
January 2024: Since LUCCA we have seen the box cover and we all assume the expansion is done and will ship this year. But wait... a new rumor has surfaced based on comments sent to GeekGoneGiddy who posted on Instagram showing that his order was cancelled and refund issued. This is from Miniature Market, a very large online retailer, that is indicating the manufacturer is not sending this product to retail. Does that mean it will be a Pulse exclusive? For premium members possibly? No global release? We are seeking official clarification from Hasbro/Avalon Hill on this. Some are predicting the end of HeroQuest already, and while I share the sentiment that things could go south at any time for this franchise, I hope that those who think it just means a few months of "exclusivity" and that's it are right. Though I disagree with that practice and I'm still going to complain to the company about it. HeroQuest should available for everyone who wants to buy it, not just people who have a subscription to a website. This to me just encourages scalping and the sort of thing that makes it difficult for everyone that I thought we were past! (and already many of us are disappointed with Hasbro following the layoffs that removed Encarmine & Avalon Bill too who had spent so much effort to reach out to fans and keep us informed.[10/19/23: News! We now have a SECOND public but non-official confirmation this is really coming out (I didn't doubt it), a store leak from the UK gives an expected release date of March 31st, 2024 and price point very similar to what we were expecting for the larger size expansion. Slight title change, unsure if it's "The Ogre Horde" or "The Ogre Horde Quest Pack" ... but probably the former. What's new in the box? We don't know but we can guess... See here at Firestormgames in the UK thanks to SteveRS2000 for posting in HeroQuestFansDiscord!]
[ For those unfamiliar with this European expansion to HeroQuest, you can check out YeOldeInn's page. Keep in mind, some things may be homebrew that have been made later by fans in an attempt to map it to NA rules by Phoenix and some others many years ago now, which may be of interest to the AH team adapting this of course! Phoenix made some typos in his quest that are documented here (may not be complete). Keep in mind editorial changes were made on these later pages as well!]What else would we expect to see and what would you like to see?
I can assume that it will convert the quests to NA style rules, with the usual word substitutions as with the rest of the Remake HeroQuest from Avalon Hill. But what else?
What will the new quests be? Will these just be preliminary quests at the start? Maybe epilogue quests at the end? Or extra steps to beef up the adventure? Anything could go here... a dramatic final battle against the forces of Chaos at the end (even if you don't own Battle Masters!). Or maybe some prologue quests where you recruit Ogre Mercenaries (mentioned but not present in the actual adventure).
Since they seem to be declining the idea to combine WOM and ATOH into one pack, or to take content created for the Dwarf and Wizard packs that was never released and import it here (though who is to say they wouldn't use any ideas from these if they were good). They seem less married to the idea of reproducing it 1:1 (as seemed to be the goal when producing the Haslab crowd funding content) as they are sure to know there is far less nostalgia for simply reprinting this pack. I talked with glasgowgargoyle and his impression of a European player who played this pack back in the day was very positive and so was that of his friends, but this is still only a very small sample size. They should be talking with those players and getting opinions and checking fan mods that were mad to gauge what direction to go with it. Perhaps they will significantly rewrite the quests this time to make it fit better into a 10 quest narrative?
Retain the OPTIONAL rule that lets you play the quests "as a series" which just means that you can't shop between quests, basically, and you can't change your Spell choices between quests (though your used spells recharge as normal). This option also means each of the four heroes gets Five "large" Healing potions that restore body points to maximum. Perhaps this set could represent each of these potions by a cardboard token. So 20 of these "Potion" tokens. Before Rise of the Dread Moon I would have said that cardboard tokens like this don't have much place in HeroQuest. Going along with the above I would retain the Dread Sorcerer Spells as tokens. However the pack seems to be missing new treasure cards. What would these be? Maybe the "Ogre Grog" that appeared in the Alchemist cards of Rise of the Dread Moon could have some place here as a joke? Allowing the Dwarf or another hero with a Toolkit ONLY in these quests to remove a sprung Pit Trap (not Pit of Darkness) or Fallen Block Trap even after the fact, would eliminate some of the problems with heroes being unintentionally trapped forever (but not dead). This is because in the EU rules you could remove these traps after they were sprung, but not in the NA converted rules. The other ways around it would be to make sure a Pass Through Rock spell scroll is found in each of these rooms or adding a secret door to be found there. To make it more interesting they could dress it up as "blasting powder" or a "digging kit" or something that only the Dwarf has expertise in using perhaps? For Pits they could borrow from Legacy of Sorasil where you can basically nail a makeshift bridge over the top to allow safe passage (each one covers over one pit). Variable Ogre Body Points. These could be handled a number of ways. One is to just roll a die and assign points to that particular Ogre Warrior each time one is discovered. Or to just assign them different body points according to the room they're in. The most boring but simplest way is to just make them all have 4 (or 5 at most) Body points. Presumably the original intention was to make the Ogre encounters more tense because you wouldn't know right away if it was a strong or weak Ogre. I have a homebrew rule that I use already where I roll to see if a monster the heroes encounter is "elite" or "normal" based on the probability if a single die. Perhaps besides just Variable body points the various Ogres could have different personality traits that made them more interesting in combat than just pure brutes. Not sure what those would be, but it's something to consider. Ogre's are big, dumb, slow tanks, but they are said to be greedy and unstable as well (loving violence and food more than treasure or political power). New cards. At minimum I would say that an Alchemist Shop should be added. Yes, it could be the same "generic" one that is featured in Kellar's Keep/Return of the Witch Lord. Dexterity would be used a lot for the many pit traps (and pits of darkness that are extra dangerous). The rules that say falling into a pit of darkness takes more damage if you have different kinds of armor could account for the fact that we now have many more types of armor but most fall into the type of bracers or cloaks ("not" metal armor) or chainmail or plate. Helmets or shields not counting. The purchasing would only take place at the start of the campaign IF players are using the OPTIONAL "play as a series" rule. But why would anyone choose differently? Because in one you can shop between quests which now means buying more potions OR you can forego this in favor of the "added realism" that so many like to insert into their campaigns when the heroes are "underground" and so are presumed to be away from the normal Armory and Alchemist Shop (there was no such rule preventing shopping in KK/ROTWL but many talk about forcing that to make it more realistic and challenging already). Treasure cards could be something as simple as poison to sap mind points, or maybe another item to RESTORE mind points since it seems there are not any other ways to restore them normally... but this is also where the Alchemist Shop could come in handy). Heroes who lose all mind points become unconscious (NOT dead or "in shock" as in other expansions). A little more clarity on this could help. If one hero succeeds you can assume he carried his comrades to safety, but did monsters steal all their gear? (They get Artifacts back as special treasures early in the next quest but other equipment and gold, potions, etc. would vanish forever). Perhaps a few fun artifacts could spice things up here, like the infamous Meme-worthy "Ogre Slaying Knife"? Rabbit Boots would be great here with all the trap jumping. Otherwise it seems like all people are finding are the generic treasure deck, healing potions and gold. To be fair, the Heroes at this point may have bought everything they could ever want (unless this is a new batch of heroes, but even so these hard quests would call for players who have at least played some of the game system first). New Plastics. In addition to the (dark blue) Ogre Lord, Chieftan and Champion, there would be four Ogre Warriors. As much as I am bored by gray figures at this point (they look like unpainted figures, like it or not) I would say there should still be RED Ogres. But maybe the Red ones could be Ogre Mercenaries? (With a different design, I''m thinking with "studded leather" or brigandine more properly and perhaps an eye patch or other details and with similar stats to an Ogre Warrior but high cost and few figures in stock to hire plus their own card). Perhaps some rule to show the instability of these characters. Maybe they need to be paid in food or drink to keep them happy. Perhaps they "eat" their victims in battle, regaining lost body points when they kill the last monster of a group (but maybe not undead... are they chewing on the bones?). I would expect Entrance and Exit Doors here of course too and a plastic "Ogre Throne." Would there be room for other "Ogre Furniture"? Perhaps oversized and crude looking with new symbols adorning them? Maybe some fancy dice? I hope we get fancy dice here if not in the other expansions like what was given out at GenCon for purchases and pre-orders. The "stone Doors" could be cardboard inserts into bases but they would look really cool as pure plastics, perhaps cast in brown. The really large Outdoor tile has a tendency to flex and bend. Perhaps making it of a thicker or stiffer card this time could help prevent that? Or just make it sturdy enough that you can bend it back without damage... New good guy spells. Perhaps some "mental" spells for the good guys would be nice here, similar to the mentalist type Elf spells included in MOTM but maybe open to both the Wizard AND Elf this time. Some say that Dwarf stuff should go here but other than an excuse to toss in a female Dwarf hero (why not in a future Dwarf pack?) I can't think of why. Perhaps some other "red" figure here to go with the new cards? Every new character type would have its own character card of course. Fix unmarked Treasure Chests (via another thread): Quest 5: right side, third room down.
Quest 7: left side bottom. Though, if I interpret it correctly, it's actually impossible to enter the room & search for treasure, unless you Pass through Rock without using the door, meaning you'd have to have the Elven Cloak of Passage or the Spell Ring, each acquired in other packs, to be able to escape with anything you'd find! Or put one of those things inside it... Gold would seem more of a tease if using the "play as a series" except on Quest 7 but could be potions too.
Write a proper Epilogue. There was not much of an ending written here, so that would be fitting. Monster Cards for the four types of Ogres (and more if they add "Ogre Mercenaries"). More skull tiles! Rule-clarifications/playtest could be sprinkled in there but are best integrated into the actual book, paying tribute to the original but with feedback from EU fans over the years given priority I would say. If I'm missing any other "how to improve ATOH" threads or big projects, please feel free to enlighten me!
I'm starting another thread about Wizards of Morcar Remake ideas as well...
Edit: Of course now we know that most of the things here have been answered...
Many more potions of healing are found in this one (again which helps make up for the lack of the "large healing potions" option from the original).
Ogres have fixed stats (and don't block hallways like they did in the original) that have been tweaked. A single Ogre Merc can be hired, and the boss Orcs all are two square monsters (that don't hold the skull tiles as well as other multi-square monsters previously released)... and they come in some bland (compared to the original) colors.
They ditched the "big healing potions" and even the "playing quests as a series" option, just telling you to play the quests in order (though you can skip the first three and the in between arena battles are completely optional). On the upside, extra healing potions are added in some formerly empty rooms in special chests left by an Ogre ally (introduced in the extra opening quests where you fight the arena battles but not necessarily contingent on having won them to get access to the 1d6 healing potions).
The arena battles add "bone" versions of weapons (that are identical to their Armory counterparts but can't be sold) as well as temporary boosts to stats and new ways to fight including Monster vs. Monster tournaments (only stats covered are for game system and ATOH characters).
Now heroes can jump into an arena battle between quests as often as they like to earn gold (and it doesn't say you can't visit the Armory to spend it... no mention of any Alchemist Shops). No new artifacts or treasure added, but plenty of bonuses via the Arena Mode that can be skipped (it takes up Quests 1-3 that were bolted onto the original 7 quest campaign). The intro and lore text was significantly altered to give the Ogres are similar makeover as the Orcs got in Spirit Queen's Torment (that they weren't all bad, just this particular group under the influence yet again of an evil sorcerer).
They added some flexibility with the ranged monsters saying you could substitute them anytime with the miniatures available (added Skeletons to the Orcs and goblins) and made the monsters weaker attacking adjacently (similar to the Elven Archers we've seen in MOTM/ROTDM). Now they have ranged attacks of 2, 3, and 4 and just the 1 in close instead of just mimicking their regular melee attack. You can thus face more of these ranged monsters than before.
They only provided basic suggestions to avoid the "trapped forever" occasions rather than fixing them and didn't adjust the BP of the Sorcerers, making them seem rather fragile compared to the boosted Ogres (they get higher BP but most have lowered defense).
Apparently the "cards" option for the Dread Sorcerer spells were the most popular so they went with those instead of tokens, and simply had multiple copies of the cards (and "Mind Blast" was renamed to "Mind Burst" I suppose to avoid any confusion with the Dread Spell from Mage of the Mirror that works completely differently).
= one hit
= one hit & pushback
= cancels one hit
