Stone Doorway question

[j_dean80]

As EW, I would rule that the effort to open such a Stone Door counts as a standard action - and as a standard action, this has implications for anything else said Hero is able to do - and more importantly, not do - within that same turn.

With that, I meant that the Hero opening the door (or attempting to, and failing) won't be able to perform a Search or Attack action, or similar, during that same turn.

Yeah, I must've missed that before. I got it now. Option 2 then.

Anyway, no objections on using a Potion of Strength to open the stone door?

Can always just use the Genie.

[wallydubbs]

When facing Ogres, as a wizard, would you really want to sacrifice your Genie spell for a door?

[Maurice76]

Could always try to trick an Ogre into pummeling the door open for you .

I'd say a Strength Potion works well for this purpose. It requires physical strength to open the door and that's exactly what this potion boosts. Adding 2 dice to the roll for whoever attempts it seems reasonable and gives the Wizard a chance to do it that way, as well.

[wallydubbs]

Thank you. It seems reasonable in foresight.

[j_dean80]

When facing Ogres, as a wizard, would you really want to sacrifice your Genie spell for a door?

That's what comrades are for. I always hated the fact the Genie Spell saying it can open doors but no one ever does.

[wallydubbs]

When facing Ogres, as a wizard, would you really want to sacrifice your Genie spell for a door?

That's what comrades are for. I always hated the fact the Genie Spell saying it can open doors but no one ever does.

Oh, I get it. It's just the lesser of two options. The wizard is very limited on attack spells as is. So I make subtle adjustments when playing; Occasionally I add a locked door and a hidden key in another room. If the Wizard (or Elf) chooses to use the Genie he can bypass the lock. This'll give them an opportunistic moment to change the genie's function.

Also, when I play Legacy of the Orc Warlord, I allow the Wizard and Elf to start off with their spells, and instead of giving them a way out (as read in the parchment text) the heroes need to figure it out for themselves: either the Wizard or Elf can cast the Genie to get them out; someone can use Pass Through Rock to get out and kill the sleeping guard (I added) and get the key to unlock the door; or they can search the cell, find an old rat bone, give it to the Dwarf and let him use his disarm trap ability to pick the lock (yes, i realize it's not the same thing, but my crew liked the idea of giving the Dwarf a chance to shine).

[Bareheaded Warrior]

Minor point but I think these are actually stone doors rather than stone doorways as all doorways in HQ would be stone.

More importantly, being doors, you would assume that all the standard door "handling" rules would apply unless otherwise stated, and the only stated difference in handling these doors in the quest book is that you need to roll to determine whether they open or not, then I think the official rules are clear: Opening doors is a free action that you can do as many times as you want on your turn as part of movement. You need to roll to determine whether the door opens or not.

However, whilst the official rule is clear, it is also flawed, failure in your attempt to open the door has no effect other than the door not opening, so you are free to try, try and try again. The outcome is inevitable, the door opening, the only thing that varies is the amount of player boredom.

In the spirit of keeping modifications to a minimum, keep it simple, less is more, and all that, I would suggest that failing the stone door opening roll should come with a penalty of at least ending your movement (but if you haven't used an action this turn you still can) or ending your turn (which feels a little harsh but then I'm not sure what action you would ever take in that situation so both options may amount to the same thing, and failing a roll ending your turn would at least be consistent with traps).

Nothing wrong with making it an action, but it is a bigger modification than is needed to fix the original flaw, less is more!

Also to keep this roll consistent with other such rolls/tests in HQ, allowing for the fact that there is very little consistency here anyway, I would suggest using the corresponding mechanism for the spell break test, so:

Player rolls a number of combat dice based on hero type, needs at least one to open the door, failure ends their turn.

• Barbarian = 4
• Dwarf = 3
• Elf = 2
• Wizard = 1

This has the added advantage that the Wizard can now open these doors, eventually, which is better than him being the only hero not slain and then dying of thirst if he ever gets trapped behind a stone door, not a particularly heroic end...

As already suggested you could allow the Potion of Strength to boost your chances, roll an extra combat die or two, although despite the image showing your bulging muscles, the Potion effects actually boosts your attack strength, even if attacking with a Crossbow, but I still like the idea of the potion boosting your chances with the door.

[wallydubbs]

As already suggested you could allow the Potion of Strength to boost your chances, roll an extra combat die or two, although despite the image showing your bulging muscles, the Potion effects actually boosts your attack strength, even if attacking with a Crossbow, but I still like the idea of the potion boosting your chances with the door.

In the same way, couldn't we therefore let the Monk use 'Strength of Mountain' to roll 4 dice in attempt to open a stone doorway?

We know how the Stone Doorway is handled with the Barbarian (roll 3 Dice), Dwarf (2 Dice), Elf (2 Dice) and Wizard (1 dice). But we also have the new heroes, do we go by attack dice or body points?
8 or more BP = 3 Dice
6 or 7 BP = 2 Dice
4 or 5 BP = 1 Dice
or
8 or more BP = 3 Dice
5 - 7 BP = 2 Dice
4 BP = 1 Dice
or
3 Starting AD = 3 Dice
2 Starting AD = 2 Dice
1 Starting AD = 1 Dice

[Kurgan]

While ATOH was written originally with the only the four classic heroes in mind, I thought the inclusion of the new Druid would imply some kind of modification and sure enough...

I checked the remake booklet and it says you go by the heroes "base attack dice" (which I take to mean the attack dice as printed on the hero card) with the mechanic for opening the stone doors.

So that means the Berserker (3 attack) would roll 3 dice.

The Druid (1 attack) is under the same limitation as the Wizard. So is the Rogue. So a party made up only of these heroes wouldn't be able to proceed, without Zargon's modification (or the Wizard's use of Genie... Pass Through Rock would only allow the one hero through, after all). A modification would be needed in the final quest if the Wizard used up his Genie before the final door (or escape with Pass Through Rock as the sole survivor!). *

Whether the Monk falls under that category could be debated, but "unarmed" (which is how he starts) it's actually 2, so I'd treat that as 2 dice.

Knight, Warlock, and Explorer would roll 2 dice to force open those stone doors.

An Ogre Mercenary has a base attack of 4, and since he can open doors, I would say he would have the easiest time with 4 dice! * Since the Ogre mercenary can be hired here as long as the party has enough gold, he guarantees at least entrance to the quest, and making sure to hire him on the final quest where he simply has to survive till the end to open the last door if none else can.

The Wolf Ally can't open doors anyway, so I wouldn't count them. If you wanted to, its base attack is 3.

While Raptors (from JoD) aren't offered in this expansion, it has a base attack of 2 and most certainly can open doors! Saberfang (JoD) says it can't open doors, but has a base attack of 2. All of the human mercs and elven mercs offered in FH and ROTDM (but not this expansion) have either a base attack of 2 (scouts), 3 (Halberdier/Glaive/Crossbowman/Arbalist), or 4 (swordsman/striker).

Suffice to say there are multiple ways within the new version that non-traditional compositions of heroes in a party could make it through the stone doors.

[wallydubbs]

Ah, I missed that one, very good catch.

However the Monk has a * next to his base attack, so I couldn't fault anyone for giving him 2 Dice to open it. Regardless, I'd still probably let him use Strength of Mountain to assist open a stone doorway.