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The East Gate

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc from the Kellar's Keep Quest Pack.

Re: The East Gate

Postby iKarith » August 25th, 2021, 7:52 pm

Daedalus wrote:
wallydubbs wrote:Speaking of the East Gate, in the North American version Borokk can attack the heroes mind, bringing down his mind points sufficiently.

Yet the East Gate itself requires mind points to open. Suppose the Elf and Barbarian both drop mind points to 1, yet they need to roll 2 dice to get out... are they stuck there and unable to advance to Grin's Crag?

Yeah, that's a poser. Mind Points can be restored between Quests, so one option could be to leave a stuck Hero behind for a Quest. Afterwards, the Hero could rejoin, whether the successfully passing Heroes completed that next Quest or failed. Of course, skipping a Quest kinda sucks, so I'd say let a failed Hero pass for 500 gold coins, the cost of a Potion of Restoration from the Alchemist's Shop. It could be fortuitously discovered at the bottom of the Hero's pack with an I.O.U. note made out to Mentor. (Loretome knows all.)


That suits me playstyle. :lol:
<InSpectreRetro> All hail Zargon!!! Morcar only has 1BP.


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Re: The East Gate

Postby Kurgan » August 25th, 2021, 8:50 pm

Potion of Restoration. The Talisman of Lore should also be with them...


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Re: The East Gate

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » August 31st, 2022, 7:11 am

I've avoided/resolved this issue through the use of standardised Strength of Mind and Strength of Body tests that are included in my rulebook and then just referred to in the relevant spell cards and in this case the Quest Book / Notes mainly to ensure consistency.

Full discussion is here: Strength of Body/Mind Tests but in summary for The East Gate the door would be handled through the harder version of the Strength of Body Test covered in Exploration 3:3

3 Strength of Body Test

In some situations, such as escaping from certain traps or special monster attacks, breaking down doors, lifting a portcullis and similar feats of physical strength, then you need to test as follows.

To carry out this test, roll a red die for each current Body Point, if at least one six is rolled you have passed.

A harder version of this test may occasionally be required, indicated in the Quest Notes, which require you to roll at least two sixes to pass this test.

The consequences of failing this test will be detailed in the specific circumstances but when attempting to break down a door then a failed attempt will end your turn and result in a Wandering Monster being placed.
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

Editions: 1989 Original First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE], 1990 Remake [US], 2021 Remake [21]

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Re: The East Gate

Postby Kurgan » January 10th, 2023, 9:19 am

It has been a long time since I played through these quests! Phoenix famously softened the effect of the mind point damage in his version of the NA edition's battle.

I never noticed there were more Fimirs in the central room in the original version (6 vs NA's 4) or that the bad guy had a different name and he attacks differently too!
See comparison (EU on top, NA on bottom):

(Also recall that the Chaos Warriors are weaker in the EU edition (6,3,4,1,3 vs 7,4,4,3,3 in NA)

The Alchemist Shop only exists in the NA edition (so stock up on Potions of Restoration!)
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Re: The East Gate

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » January 13th, 2023, 1:16 pm

I don’t think the Talisman of Lore, or the Potion of Restoration really resolve the problem(s) here. The Talisman of Lore, as per our previous discussions gives a +1 to the starting Mind Point value and the problem here is related to the current Mind Point value. A Potion of Restoration, would get around one of the problems and partially mitigate another, but as we can’t guarantee that the Heroes have such a potion at this point in the Quest (and potentially they could need 3 of them) the flaw still exists (although you could put 3x Potion of Restoration in a chest after Borokk but that feels inelegant!)

Quest Note B
Place Borokk, an evil Chaos Warlock, in the square marked with his name. Borokk has the same stats as a Chaos Warrior, but he also has a very special and deadly magical power. On each of his turns, he attacks the “mind” of any Hero in the same room or corridor and in his line of sight. To do this this, Borokk rolls 2 combat dice. For each skull he rolls, the victim of the attack loses 1 Mind Point. If a Hero reaches zero Mind Points, he is dead forever, unless he has an Elixir of Life. (See matching Artifact card in the Game System).

Quest Note D
The East Gate was locked many years ago by special Dwarvern magic. It is not easily opened. When either the Barbarian, Elf or Wizard attempts to pass through the Gate tell him to roll 2 red dice. That Hero may pass through the gate only if the total number rolled is equal to or less than his current number of Mind Points. If the Hero fails to open the gate, his turn ends. The Dwarf needs to roll only 1 die as he has some knowledge of the magic used to lock the door.


The problem(s):
1. The instructions around handling the door/gate are confusing. Opening a door and passing through a door are logically (and within the HeroQuest rules) distinctly different things, opening a door is a ‘free action’ that takes place at any point during a Hero’s turn, passing through an opened door is part of the movement action. The instructions as written are ambiguous as they refer twice to conditions around opening the door (the free action) “It is not easily opened” and “If the Hero fails to open the gate” and once to conditions attached to the ‘passing through the door’ (part of the movement action) ‘When either the Barbarian, Elf or Wizard attempts to pass through the Gate’. Are the restrictions stated supposed to apply when a Hero attempts to open the door (once opened anyone can pass through without restrictions) or when any and every Hero attempts to pass through the door (opening it is as standard, passing through is conditional) or both?

2. The instructions around Borokk’s ‘special ability’ aren’t clear. Borokk is described as a Chaos Sorcerer but has no spells listed, are we to presume that his ‘special power’ is his only spell in which case you would assume that it takes an action to cast it, but the text states that he uses this power on each of his turns, which would only be the case if he didn’t use his action for anything else (and he gets to use the same spell over and over again), does using this spell-like power not need an action or is it a spell and needs an action? Also, Borokk’s spell or spell-like power specifies that it is restricted to targets within his LOS (which is compatible with the usual US ranged attack including ranged spells rules) but also that they have to be within the same room or corridor as the caster which is a restriction specific to this spell or spell-like ability only and seems an unnecessary extra restriction.

3. The testing mechanism introduced “roll 2 red dice. That Hero may pass through the gate only if the total number rolled is equal to or less than his current number of Mind Points” is flawed as it is impossible for anyone with 1 current Mind Point to pass

4. For any Hero with more than 1 Mind Point but a low value like 2, the above test is still problematic as they will be there all day rolling and rolling, without penalty, knowing that the result is inevitable but still having to grind through the process.

5. The statement that a Hero reduced to less than 1 MP is dead forever (in common speech this would usually be phrased as ‘a Hero reduced to zero Mind Points is dead’, dead is generally assumed to be forever and less than one, when less than zero is not permitted, is just zero) unless he has the Elixir of Life is misleading as him having the Elixir of Life when he is dead is of no help whatsoever.

Adopting the principle that if it isn’t clear or doesn’t work in the US edition that check against the earlier editions and see if that helps cast some light on the matter.

UK version below

A The gate is locked, and strength will not force it. The runes carved upon it must be read aloud. Any player attempting (Hero) attempting to read the runes must roll two dice and roll a number equal to or less than the number of Mind points shown on his character board, to open the door. If the player fails to open the door his turn ends. The Dwarf only needs to roll one die, as he is familiar with Dwarvern runes.

C This Chaos Sorcerer, Petrokk rolls the same dice as a Chaos Warrior. He may, however, also make an additional attack once per turn. This attack may be made against any character in line of sight in the same room or passage. Petrokk rolls two combat dice. For each skull he rolls, the victim of the attack must lose one Mind Point. If a character reaches less than one Mind point, he dies.


Interestingly in the earlier version the test is clearly to be applied to the ‘opening of the door’, no mention of conditions being applied to rules around passing through (so problem 1 is gone). The mind point value cited is the one on your character board that is your starting MP not your current MP value so problem 3 is gone. Problem 4 would only really occur if the Barbarian was the only survivor at this point. Problem 5 doesn’t exist in the original wording. Problem 2 is the only one remaining.

So, the conversion to US rules seems to have introduced a load of problems that weren’t there in the original (so maybe not an ‘upgrade’ then?)

Finally, can the Genie open this door, I assume he can?
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

Editions: 1989 Original First Edition [FE] and Second Edition [SE], 1990 Remake [US], 2021 Remake [21]

HeroQuest Gold new edition based on Original 1989 HeroQuest, holes patched, dents hammered out, buffed to a shiny finish with ~50 common issues fixed for a smoother experience.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board
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