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Against the Ogre Horde 2024 Remake Edition Suggestions

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc, from the Against the Ogre Horde Quest Pack.

Against the Ogre Horde 2024 Remake Edition Suggestions

Postby Kurgan » Tuesday September 5th, 2023 4:15pm

Encarmine (Chris Nadaeu project leader at Hasbro's Avalon Hill) has basically told us that Against the Ogre Horde (1990) and Wizards of Morcar (1991) IF they are to be (re)made (they have dropped enough hints in concept art and displays that even IF we hadn't had a game shop leak earlier this year of a 2024 release date, we can assume these are coming out and for all we know are already mostly done!) confirmed that he would want to expand this quest pack to 10 quests (over the original 7) and put physical content in the box to make it match the quality of offerings from 2022's Frozen Horror remake (which was also the "gold standard" for filling out Mage of the Mirror remake & for Rise of the Dread Moon in the same sized box). ATOH is followed immediately by WOM (in their prologues we see this, and they both take place after the original 14 quests as well as Kellar's Keep & Return of the Witch Lord, but of course anyone can play them, it's simply recommended they not all be basic level heroes for the sake of a reasonable challenge). Unlike WOM, this pack does not authorize the hiring of Mercenaries, but that could change...

So yes, this thread is going to be MOSTLY SPECULATION, I want to make that clear.

:redheart: January 2024: Since LUCCA we have seen the box cover and we all assume the expansion is done and will ship this year. But wait... a new rumor has surfaced based on comments sent to GeekGoneGiddy who posted on Instagram showing that his order was cancelled and refund issued. This is from Miniature Market, a very large online retailer, that is indicating the manufacturer is not sending this product to retail. Does that mean it will be a Pulse exclusive? For premium members possibly? No global release? We are seeking official clarification from Hasbro/Avalon Hill on this. Some are predicting the end of HeroQuest already, and while I share the sentiment that things could go south at any time for this franchise, I hope that those who think it just means a few months of "exclusivity" and that's it are right. Though I disagree with that practice and I'm still going to complain to the company about it. HeroQuest should available for everyone who wants to buy it, not just people who have a subscription to a website. This to me just encourages scalping and the sort of thing that makes it difficult for everyone that I thought we were past! (and already many of us are disappointed with Hasbro following the layoffs that removed Encarmine & Avalon Bill too who had spent so much effort to reach out to fans and keep us informed.

[10/19/23: News! We now have a SECOND public but non-official confirmation this is really coming out (I didn't doubt it), a store leak from the UK gives an expected release date of March 31st, 2024 and price point very similar to what we were expecting for the larger size expansion. Slight title change, unsure if it's "The Ogre Horde" or "The Ogre Horde Quest Pack" ... but probably the former. What's new in the box? We don't know but we can guess... See here at Firestormgames in the UK thanks to SteveRS2000 for posting in HeroQuestFansDiscord!]

:idea: [ For those unfamiliar with this European expansion to HeroQuest, you can check out YeOldeInn's page. Keep in mind, some things may be homebrew that have been made later by fans in an attempt to map it to NA rules by Phoenix and some others many years ago now, which may be of interest to the AH team adapting this of course! Phoenix made some typos in his quest that are documented here (may not be complete). Keep in mind editorial changes were made on these later pages as well!]

What else would we expect to see and what would you like to see?

I can assume that it will convert the quests to NA style rules, with the usual word substitutions as with the rest of the Remake HeroQuest from Avalon Hill. But what else?

What will the new quests be? Will these just be preliminary quests at the start? Maybe epilogue quests at the end? Or extra steps to beef up the adventure? Anything could go here... a dramatic final battle against the forces of Chaos at the end (even if you don't own Battle Masters!). Or maybe some prologue quests where you recruit Ogre Mercenaries (mentioned but not present in the actual adventure).

Since they seem to be declining the idea to combine WOM and ATOH into one pack, or to take content created for the Dwarf and Wizard packs that was never released and import it here (though who is to say they wouldn't use any ideas from these if they were good). They seem less married to the idea of reproducing it 1:1 (as seemed to be the goal when producing the Haslab crowd funding content) as they are sure to know there is far less nostalgia for simply reprinting this pack. I talked with glasgowgargoyle and his impression of a European player who played this pack back in the day was very positive and so was that of his friends, but this is still only a very small sample size. They should be talking with those players and getting opinions and checking fan mods that were mad to gauge what direction to go with it. Perhaps they will significantly rewrite the quests this time to make it fit better into a 10 quest narrative?

:redorb: Retain the OPTIONAL rule that lets you play the quests "as a series" which just means that you can't shop between quests, basically, and you can't change your Spell choices between quests (though your used spells recharge as normal). This option also means each of the four heroes gets Five "large" Healing potions that restore body points to maximum. Perhaps this set could represent each of these potions by a cardboard token. So 20 of these "Potion" tokens. Before Rise of the Dread Moon I would have said that cardboard tokens like this don't have much place in HeroQuest.

:redorb: Going along with the above I would retain the Dread Sorcerer Spells as tokens. However the pack seems to be missing new treasure cards. What would these be? Maybe the "Ogre Grog" that appeared in the Alchemist cards of Rise of the Dread Moon could have some place here as a joke?

:redorb: Allowing the Dwarf or another hero with a Toolkit ONLY in these quests to remove a sprung Pit Trap (not Pit of Darkness) or Fallen Block Trap even after the fact, would eliminate some of the problems with heroes being unintentionally trapped forever (but not dead). This is because in the EU rules you could remove these traps after they were sprung, but not in the NA converted rules. The other ways around it would be to make sure a Pass Through Rock spell scroll is found in each of these rooms or adding a secret door to be found there. To make it more interesting they could dress it up as "blasting powder" or a "digging kit" or something that only the Dwarf has expertise in using perhaps? For Pits they could borrow from Legacy of Sorasil where you can basically nail a makeshift bridge over the top to allow safe passage (each one covers over one pit).

:redorb: Variable Ogre Body Points. These could be handled a number of ways. One is to just roll a die and assign points to that particular Ogre Warrior each time one is discovered. Or to just assign them different body points according to the room they're in. The most boring but simplest way is to just make them all have 4 (or 5 at most) Body points. Presumably the original intention was to make the Ogre encounters more tense because you wouldn't know right away if it was a strong or weak Ogre. I have a homebrew rule that I use already where I roll to see if a monster the heroes encounter is "elite" or "normal" based on the probability if a single die. Perhaps besides just Variable body points the various Ogres could have different personality traits that made them more interesting in combat than just pure brutes. Not sure what those would be, but it's something to consider. Ogre's are big, dumb, slow tanks, but they are said to be greedy and unstable as well (loving violence and food more than treasure or political power).

:redorb: New cards. At minimum I would say that an Alchemist Shop should be added. Yes, it could be the same "generic" one that is featured in Kellar's Keep/Return of the Witch Lord. Dexterity would be used a lot for the many pit traps (and pits of darkness that are extra dangerous). The rules that say falling into a pit of darkness takes more damage if you have different kinds of armor could account for the fact that we now have many more types of armor but most fall into the type of bracers or cloaks ("not" metal armor) or chainmail or plate. Helmets or shields not counting. The purchasing would only take place at the start of the campaign IF players are using the OPTIONAL "play as a series" rule. But why would anyone choose differently? Because in one you can shop between quests which now means buying more potions OR you can forego this in favor of the "added realism" that so many like to insert into their campaigns when the heroes are "underground" and so are presumed to be away from the normal Armory and Alchemist Shop (there was no such rule preventing shopping in KK/ROTWL but many talk about forcing that to make it more realistic and challenging already). Treasure cards could be something as simple as poison to sap mind points, or maybe another item to RESTORE mind points since it seems there are not any other ways to restore them normally... but this is also where the Alchemist Shop could come in handy). Heroes who lose all mind points become unconscious (NOT dead or "in shock" as in other expansions). A little more clarity on this could help. If one hero succeeds you can assume he carried his comrades to safety, but did monsters steal all their gear? (They get Artifacts back as special treasures early in the next quest but other equipment and gold, potions, etc. would vanish forever). Perhaps a few fun artifacts could spice things up here, like the infamous Meme-worthy "Ogre Slaying Knife"? Rabbit Boots would be great here with all the trap jumping. Otherwise it seems like all people are finding are the generic treasure deck, healing potions and gold. To be fair, the Heroes at this point may have bought everything they could ever want (unless this is a new batch of heroes, but even so these hard quests would call for players who have at least played some of the game system first).

:redorb: New Plastics. In addition to the (dark blue) Ogre Lord, Chieftan and Champion, there would be four Ogre Warriors. As much as I am bored by gray figures at this point (they look like unpainted figures, like it or not) I would say there should still be RED Ogres. But maybe the Red ones could be Ogre Mercenaries? (With a different design, I''m thinking with "studded leather" or brigandine more properly and perhaps an eye patch or other details and with similar stats to an Ogre Warrior but high cost and few figures in stock to hire plus their own card). Perhaps some rule to show the instability of these characters. Maybe they need to be paid in food or drink to keep them happy. Perhaps they "eat" their victims in battle, regaining lost body points when they kill the last monster of a group (but maybe not undead... are they chewing on the bones?). I would expect Entrance and Exit Doors here of course too and a plastic "Ogre Throne." Would there be room for other "Ogre Furniture"? Perhaps oversized and crude looking with new symbols adorning them? Maybe some fancy dice? I hope we get fancy dice here if not in the other expansions like what was given out at GenCon for purchases and pre-orders. The "stone Doors" could be cardboard inserts into bases but they would look really cool as pure plastics, perhaps cast in brown.

:redorb: The really large Outdoor tile has a tendency to flex and bend. Perhaps making it of a thicker or stiffer card this time could help prevent that? Or just make it sturdy enough that you can bend it back without damage...

:redorb: New good guy spells. Perhaps some "mental" spells for the good guys would be nice here, similar to the mentalist type Elf spells included in MOTM but maybe open to both the Wizard AND Elf this time. Some say that Dwarf stuff should go here but other than an excuse to toss in a female Dwarf hero (why not in a future Dwarf pack?) I can't think of why. Perhaps some other "red" figure here to go with the new cards? Every new character type would have its own character card of course.

:redorb: Fix unmarked Treasure Chests (via another thread):
Quest 5: right side, third room down.
Quest 7: left side bottom. Though, if I interpret it correctly, it's actually impossible to enter the room & search for treasure, unless you Pass through Rock without using the door, meaning you'd have to have the Elven Cloak of Passage or the Spell Ring, each acquired in other packs, to be able to escape with anything you'd find! Or put one of those things inside it... Gold would seem more of a tease if using the "play as a series" except on Quest 7 but could be potions too.

:redorb: Write a proper Epilogue. There was not much of an ending written here, so that would be fitting.

:redorb: Monster Cards for the four types of Ogres (and more if they add "Ogre Mercenaries").

:redorb: More skull tiles!

:redorb: Rule-clarifications/playtest could be sprinkled in there but are best integrated into the actual book, paying tribute to the original but with feedback from EU fans over the years given priority I would say.

If I'm missing any other "how to improve ATOH" threads or big projects, please feel free to enlighten me! |_P

I'm starting another thread about Wizards of Morcar Remake ideas as well...
Last edited by Kurgan on Friday January 19th, 2024 8:12pm, edited 21 times in total.


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Re: Against the Ogre Horde 2024 Remake Edition Suggestions

Postby Vorimir » Tuesday September 5th, 2023 5:01pm

I hope they keep the ogre stats from MOTM for consistency and just boost the leaders.I would like the ogre lord to have 10 BP as a homage of the old ogre from MOTM. Ogres should be ogres here and there.
I would like miniatures for orc spearmen and for ranged armed orcs and goblins. We will probably get plastic stone doors. Maybe some ogrely new scenery with new rules?
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Re: Against the Ogre Horde 2024 Remake Edition Suggestions

Postby Kurgan » Tuesday September 5th, 2023 5:23pm

Having one "Boss Ogre" with 10 BP actually sounds like a cool idea and a nod to something in the old lore mechanics...

I would LOVE to see wrestling moves and "breakable" tables (put the two pieces together, and then you can simulate it breaking apart as you slam some character through them) but that's probably too much to ask, heh.


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Re: Against the Ogre Horde 2024 Remake Edition Suggestions

Postby dreicunan » Tuesday September 5th, 2023 7:49pm

I already allow breakable furniture (occurred in a game yesterday where my daughter had her elf pass through walls into a corner in the center room in the Trial flanked by the chair and the treasure chest to start taking potshots at Verag, prompting an orc in the room to start trying to bust through the chair to stop her. Verag was down before the chair broke), but yeah, actual breakable furniture might be asking too much.

I'd say that Morcar and Against the Ogre Horde would be great places to introduce one of the extra heroes. The bard already has an "in" in Spirit Queen's Torment if that ever gets a retail release. I haven't read through the storylines of ATOH and WoM enough to know which of the Druid or Warlock would fit best in what.

For pit traps and rockfalls, I'd suggest that the process of doing so takes 2 or 3 turns and the noise attracts a wandering monster or two (they appear at the end of all heroes turn and can immediately move on Zargon's turn) every turn that is spent working on it. Working on it takes both your move and your action, but if space allows multiple heroes can work on it to speed up the process.
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Re: Against the Ogre Horde 2024 Remake Edition Suggestions

Postby Kurgan » Wednesday September 6th, 2023 11:41am

If they made actual "breakable" furniture (think the modern WWE toys, or the old "Karate Kid" action figures) probably some people would just glue them together again to "fix" them ;)

Another thing to include in this set (as well as the remake of WOM) would be:

:redorb: MORE SKULL TILES. If you have a bunch of new bad guys out there and variable body points (without the trackers) you'd probably want maybe another 12-16 Skull tiles similar to how Frozen Horror/Mage of the Mirror had them for the new BP monsters.


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Re: Against the Ogre Horde 2024 Remake Edition Suggestions

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » Thursday September 7th, 2023 2:55am

I've never been a fan of the "playing quests as a series" optional rule in SE because if you take that option then I assume that your MP and BP restore as usual between quests anyway (it doesn't say that they don't, so I imagine normal rules apply but if they don't I'm not sure how your MP is supposed to recover) in which case the only drawbacks from playing as a series are that you can't buy anything between quests (but in SE by that point there is nothing left to buy and no Alchemist's Shop) and not being able to swap your spell cards between Wizard and Elf (in SE there are only the basic 12 at this point) is hardly a significant impact, in exchange you receive super-healing potions, that I estimate would cost around 800-1000gc in HQ to be consistent with other potion costs, so taking this option has no significant drawbacks but has the significant bonus of a 16,000-20,000gc kit giveaway, that has the potential to carry over and wreck future packs (that and it would have been cheaper for the Emperor to hire an army!)

The instruction to the EWP to return used cards to the treasure deck between quests isn't very clear as the official rules state that ALL treasure cards are returned to the deck, both used and unused, anyway so is this a cryptic instruction that the player can keep unused treasure cards from one quest to another if playing as a series, in which case it is probably easier than playing them individually, even without the vast giveaway!

And the magically transporting a new starting character to join the party when one is killed is a lame explanation, it all feels a bit rushed and not properly thought through...

Personally I hope they scrap or completely rethink that optional rule (and perhaps don't make it optional)

I agree with Kurgan around the Alchemist's Shop needing to be present and potentially expanded - personally I just have more single-use equipment cards (and more permanent equipment cards) in my version so you never run out of things to buy but as the remake uses NA rules, then Alchemists Shop it is! These potions as Cards perhaps along with new Treasure Cards

I think the New Dread Sorcerer Spells should be represented by actual Cards, to keep them consistent with the existing Spell cards and not introduce a new token based system which isn't really backwards compatible. Also need to clarify whether these are referring to starting or current Mind Points and perhaps look again at the concept of Mind Points and loss thereof shock, unconsciousness (with no rules to handle it), death now that Mind Points are finally be utilised... (or my own suggestion for using Mind Dice instead of Mind Points)

Disagree with reverting back to SE rules for disarming (removing) obstacles like pits and fallen blocks for this quest pack as that is inconsistent, is not backward compatible and will just confuse players.

Ogre body points are subject to a lively discussion topic of their own, not sure what the answer is, maybe just scrap variable BP altogether, but agree this needs to be sorted as part of the remake, those in-quest book tracker are horrible.

Fix the issues around stone doors (separate topic in this section already)

Clarify around the Ogre blocking property in terms of how it interacts with Veil of Mist, Invisibility and similar.

Clarify how the Swinging Blade traps work around, does the triggering hero get to continue his movement, does it keep swinging, and so on - again separate topic for this already exists here

Take another look at Pit of Darkness rules (again topic already exists), these specify a 30ft drop which is presumably more than a standard pit trap (although the depth of those is never stated) and yet for an hero without armour the odds of damage are less than a standard pit trap 1 combat die as opposed to 1 lost BP, and to be honest, the whole variable damage based on your armour concept seems more complicated than it needs to be, if you want to scale up pit (and other similar devices) damage to compensate for heroes with huge amounts of armour just adopt the standard "EWP rolls x combat dice, hero loses 1 BP for each skull rolled" mechanism that already exists in the game.

And what the effects of the Pit of Chaos really are, why Festral has a Magic Ring but isn't using it, and what its properties are...

Basically what I'm saying is that the designers really shouldn't publish anything without running it passed us first :D
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Re: Against the Ogre Horde 2024 Remake Edition Suggestions

Postby Kurgan » Thursday September 7th, 2023 11:11am

Even in the basic ATOH original release, unconsciousness wears off between quests, so that implies Mind Points automatically recharge (and is the only way by default in this pack for MP to come back).

I too am not a fan of the "you can't shop between quests" (and then tease you with a shop that you can only visit at the very start and very end of the campaign!) but many people want it in their homebrew games anyway (comes up all the time with regard to KK for instance) AND the original quest offered it as an optional rule.. key word OPTIONAL. AH recognized this longinging by many and gave us a version of it in ROTDM (though compensating us with the "hideouts" which is a much more complicated way of just inserting the shops and a lesser form of the auto-regeneration into the quest itself to provide a little more RPG-lite feel). Without the "magical transporting" then you would be saying that as heroes die, they cannot be replaced and so eventually you are left with just one hero being overwhelmed later in the campaign. I guess the other solution is that you just HAPPEN upon a captured warrior or something mid-quest and that role is taken over by the player who formerly lost his character. Just a little story flavor sprinkled onto the same mechanic. The power is limited, the warp gate is only big enough for one hero at a time, etc. can be other excuses for why it "just works" similar to how you can shop between quests otherwise (magical vending machine or traveling merchant who brought just enough stuff that you would happened to want to buy and you're too honorable to rob him of course). The Hideouts were a neat idea, but they only deal with the "realism" angle, they don't increase the difficulty to the point that those who generally request this stuff were asking for (the Hideout means you can only heal a max of 6 points rather than a guaranteed full restore of both body and mind, and a bad roll may mean even a less powerful hero might not be full every time). Nothing says you can't spend gold mid-quest you just need an opportunity to do so...

I presume that any of the UNUSED "giant healing potions" would be returned at the end of the ATOH campaign ("needed elsewhere" or perhaps they could be retained at a substantial gold fee, similar to buying some of the pricier potions of the other expansions). And judging by the difficulty here (and because Death Saves are a thing in the NA-based remake rules these would be using by default) and that it is being expanded to 10 quests, it's quite possible these potions almost all be used up by the end anyway. If not, they would be like the Potion of Superior Restoration offered in MOTM (hardly an unprecedented thing for this ruleset) except it doesn't cure the Werewolf Curse nor does it restore Mind Points (I reject the former theory we used to debate about as to whether these "Big Potions" were meant to be the way to heal between quests, but I think that is taken care of automatically whether played as a series or not).

The general rule with stuff is that you should see what it says and what it doesn't say. If it doesn't say a certain springing trap type ends your turn, then it doesn't end your turn.

The Pit of Chaos effect is presumed by me to be the same as Command (Granted, this Spell didn't exist in the EU campaigns.. the closest thing was the Dominate Chaos Spell in this same pack which allows Morcar to control the hero's piece for one turn... so change that to permanently). With no death saves in the EU edition we could assume that death cancels the control (or possibly winning the quest... or else you just have to assume that hero is "dead" and is replaced with a new named version of that character type sadly in the next one). Command did allow escape via dice roll with mind points and is a more "forgiving" solution. Making the spell cancel if the bad guy is killed and the mission completed (perhaps ALL monsters killed to make it more challenging) would also seem like a "just" solution. Even if the hero never "accidentally" goes into the Pit of Chaos, a "dominated" hero can be marched into there to retain the control "forever." Command was always a bit vague, because it says you can move as a monster and attack other heroes but it doesn't say anything about using potions, artifacts (weapons only?), spells (attack spells only?).

The magic ring is just yet another tribute (among many, throughout the editions) to Tolkien's LOTR, and I have absolutely no problem with it. It's helping him control the Ogres, and its destruction begins to sow Chaos (not the kind they are wanting) among their ranks and Zargon/Morcar's harnessing of the Horde's power is breaking down after that point...

Again these are not meant to be easy quests, and the difficulty increases when you throw in the extra BP of standard NA monsters (though the death saves will help a lot, even if they can't buy new potions between quests because they will still find them in the Treasure Deck not to mention the "Big" ones being gifted).

I agree that Ogres being solid blocks is a new mechanic and an interesting one, but can it be bypassed by magic? I would tend to say "yes." The alternative is that they can always be used by Zargon/Morcar to block doors, shoving the heroes' own favored tactic back in their faces. Cornered? You will have to fight your way out! Can the Rogue defeat it? Up to the GM to decide in that case... You could just imagine these Ogres are fatter and smellier than the ones you've encountered in the Elven realm, perhaps. ;)

But would some rule clarifications here and there in the new Questbook be a good thing? I absolutely agree. They don't have to fill in every possible gap, and by leaving things a bit vague they leave open the imagination of each group and the house rules of yesteryear to still "work." But here they would be wise to check and see what "fan fixes" have been implemented over the years from the EU fans who actually grew up playing this one, as opposed to just what we today, in the US think (though it's always wise to look at that as well as their own experience making HeroQuest today!). When a simple, neat & clean solution presents itself out of that classic era that works, why not go to that first? Since I don't often hear from our EU friends on this point I'm open to being educated on that.


One little clarification I would like to see... let's say a Pit of Darkness is discovered that "splits" a corridor. Does that mean searches for secret doors now only search the section of corridor on one side of the trap? Perhaps it's a minor one, but I'd like to see how they would answer that. I think at one time or another people have wondered if a character is IN a pit trap in a corridor if you can "shoot over their head" to hit enemies on the other side in the same corridor (and would this apply moreso for a "pit of darkness" that is supposed to be much deeper than your typical pit trap)...


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Re: Against the Ogre Horde 2024 Remake Edition Suggestions

Postby Kurgan » Thursday September 7th, 2023 12:54pm

To me they could EASILY say "for this quest book campaign only... heroes on their turn may..." and allow disarming sprung (normal) Pit and Fallen Block traps to be removed. We have had official quests before where inside a single quest all traps work differently than they do in the base rules.

They could even allow Traps & Secret doors to be searched in a single action, whether as an optional "Playtest" rule or as an implementation for "this quest book campaign only." It has the potential to speed up gameplay slightly anyway. Granted, the Wandering Monk hero was given this as a special ability he can do once (until his "Styles" refresh which happens after he no longer sees monsters).

Actually they could do this with WOM as well. It would be a simple and easy way to back-translate those EU rules into these campaigns that were originally designed for them. Just a thought...

I know there is a strong desire for rules to be "Universal" rather than expansion specific, but the fact is we have other examples of this already in canon.... for instance Zero mind points means what? In the EU base rules it meant death but in actual implementation in KK it was death (and in the NA edition, permanent death unless you had the Elixir of Life; implying Mind Point restoring Potions that had been introduced wouldn't work to save you) while in ROTWL it was only unconsciousness (wears off in the next quest automatically which ATOH imitates).... while in Frozen Horror & Mage of the Mirror it was going into "shock" (clarified in "Into the Northlands" that anything that restores mind points can bring you immediately out of shock, not just when used at the exact moment you go to zero as might have been assumed in the 1992 printings).

Or how double attacks vs. the same target by heroes are not clarified except in the Rogue Hero pack (and by one type of Monsters explicitly in Frozen Horror) despite them being usable all throughout every quest potentially via Heroic Brew (not just when you find Orc's Bane against Orcs).

Anyway it's one possible way to handle it to make it work better in these particular quests. Maybe AH testers disagree...


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Re: Against the Ogre Horde 2024 Remake Edition Suggestions

Postby wallydubbs » Friday September 8th, 2023 12:19am

I'm somewhat recalling some of the original artwork from Against the Ogre Hoard, where one of the heroes sprung a pit trap and is holding onto the edge with what appears to be a friendly ogre in the back, the Dwarf making a hand gesture to slow down or warn the Ogre...
Hasbro/Avalon Hill might get it in their heads to make a tamed Ogre hero. The introduction of Against the Ogre Hoard did specify that Ogres aren't inherently evil, so it seems reasonable that since they get in the habit of making new heroes, this could possibly be in the mindset of things to come. This Ogre would more likely have 10 body points, unique weapons that only he can wield and more then likely he's not able to wear armor because none would fit him. Maybe he'll have the ability to hold a Battle Axe in one hand and shield in another.

The cardboard token from the original Against the Ogre Hoard should be obsolete as this was the first form of monsters having spells in the European version, so it would be smart for them to just use cards.
I doubt they would be consistent with the swinging blade traps from Frozen Horror, admittedly the Swinging blade traps from AtOH were better and I hope they stick with that.
I honestly never cared for the Pit of Darkness trap, but it would mark a difference between Borin's Armor and Elven Chainmail.

Just as the creators of Rise of the Dread Moon marked their quests eligible or ineligible for visiting the armory and potion shops, I would imagine, if indeed they wish to expand this into a 10 quest pack, they'll be paying more attention to this mechanic.

It took a while, but after copying the Game System, Keller's Keep, Return of the Witch Lord and Frozen Horror verbatim, they made a minimum effort to make Mage of the Mirror playable and taking things a step further with Rise of the Dread Moon to actually playtest a new quest pack, the might actually intend to improve Against the Ogre Hoard and Wizards of Morcar/Zargon.
Maybe Hasbro finally realized they'll make more money being true to their audience then making a quick buck off of nostalgia.

Against the Ogre Hoard and Wizards of Morcar/Zargon would require an ending, something the original quest packs lacked, and hopefully a reward.

There's always the potential for more artifacts and spells (especially when it comes to Wizards of Morcar). I remember when I played it I added a few spell scrolls here and there. Much like Frozen Horror catered to the icy climate, there could be a few weapons tailored killing Ogres. Hopefully they'd put more thought into it then Fortune's Longsword.

I'm very hopeful about this one.


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Re: Against the Ogre Horde 2024 Remake Edition Suggestions

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » Friday September 8th, 2023 5:21am

Kurgan wrote:I presume that any of the UNUSED "giant healing potions" would be returned at the end of the ATOH campaign ("needed elsewhere" or perhaps they could be retained at a substantial gold fee, similar to buying some of the pricier potions of the other expansions).

The general rule with stuff is that you should see what it says and what it doesn't say. If it doesn't say a certain springing trap type ends your turn, then it doesn't end your turn.


So as it doesn't say that you have to return the "giant healing potions" at the end of the AtOH campaign, you presume that you do have to?

Kurgan wrote:They don't have to fill in every possible gap, and by leaving things a bit vague they leave open the imagination of each group


Why not go the whole hog and provide a blank sheet of paper instead of a rulebook and really spark the imagination of the group. Surely the intention of the designers of games is to make the rules, simple, clear, consistent and comprehensive rather than vague.

One little clarification I would like to see... let's say a Pit of Darkness is discovered that "splits" a corridor. Does that mean searches for secret doors now only search the section of corridor on one side of the trap? Perhaps it's a minor one, but I'd like to see how they would answer that. I think at one time or another people have wondered if a character is IN a pit trap in a corridor if you can "shoot over their head" to hit enemies on the other side in the same corridor (and would this apply more so for a "pit of darkness" that is supposed to be much deeper than your typical pit trap)...

The general rule with stuff is that you should see what it says and what it doesn't say. If it doesn't say a certain springing trap type ends your turn, then it doesn't end your turn.


No, because it doesn't say that, which apparently is the rule.
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

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