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Outer Caves

Discuss Quests, Cards, Monsters etc, from the Against the Ogre Horde Quest Pack.

Outer Caves

Postby wallydubbs » Wednesday February 13th, 2019 11:47am

Now, I've noticed in some quests there are falling block traps that could potentially trap a hero in a room: this is seen in Quest 1 Search for the Ogre Fortress, Quest 5 The Pit of Chaos, and Quest 7 Flight to the surface.
This also happens in the Hidden Realms of the Elf Quest Pack.
This is all fine and good providing the Wizard still has Pass Through Rock (or if the Elf has Flashback).
But in Quest 2 The Outer Caves, of Against the Ogre Horde, this could be an unforgiving problem. The falling block trap here in the 2nd small room. Since there's no way to search for traps (especially with the Fimir present), the first hero to enter the room will set off the trap, sealing his comrades in the previous room. Pass Through Rock can only be cast on 1 hero, not 3.
This doesn't only occur in Phoenix's version, but is apparent in the Original as well as the American remake by drathe. I respect drathe and all those who took part in revising the European expansions for American use, but did they actually miss this too?

As inconsiderable as not playtesting Against the Ogre Hoard was, I have to wonder how anyone missed this? It's one thing to leave a hero trapped in a room, falling block traps give the hero the option to either jump to the side or fall back, so seeing the contents of the room and choosing to jump in is halfway on the hero, but this one prevents 3 heroes from actually finishing the quest because this doorway is detrimental to getting to the end.
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Re: Outer Caves

Postby knightkrawler » Wednesday February 13th, 2019 12:10pm

It hink they wanted to teach the Wizard to venture into a room first at least sometimes.
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Re: Outer Caves

Postby Maurice76 » Wednesday February 13th, 2019 4:18pm

wallydubbs wrote:Since there's no way to search for traps (especially with the Fimir present), the first hero to enter the room will set off the trap, sealing his comrades in the previous room.


Actually, this only happens if the Hero tries to move next to the Fimir from the side, and not on the tile with the door to the room below. But even if the Hero moves onto the tile between the door and the Fimir, he then would need to kill the Fimir in one blow, as the next Hero will then likely Search for Traps when he enters. If not, that second Hero will no doubt set off the trap and seal the other Heroes in the other room.

As EW, I would modify it slightly by moving the trigger tile and the target tile up one tile with respect to their current positions.


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Re: Outer Caves

Postby wallydubbs » Wednesday February 13th, 2019 4:47pm

I was thinking of adding a secret door...
But really, why wouldn't have drathe caught this?
If I could ever get a working Ghost Script I'd modify some of the originals and fix some of these problems.
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Re: Outer Caves

Postby Thor-in » Wednesday February 13th, 2019 5:05pm

wallydubbs wrote:I was thinking of adding a secret door...
But really, why wouldn't have drathe caught this?
If I could ever get a working Ghost Script I'd modify some of the originals and fix some of these problems.


I've been thinking this over all day and trying to wrap my head around it, then lighting struck my brain. I've been thinking as the EW all day. If I was the player I would need and use a crossbow to shoot the Fimir through the door, or have the Wizard cast Fire of Wrath or Genie through the doorway (possible some different spell). You can't just barrel in and expect to not set off the trap. That looks like the whole point of this one, to force X players lose there characters to starvation or other monsters they didn't kill off because they are stuck......Forever.
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Re: Outer Caves

Postby StratosVX » Wednesday February 13th, 2019 10:32pm

wallydubbs wrote:But really, why wouldn't have drathe caught this?

Nothing says he didn't. I believe the recreated quest books were made to be identical in content to the originals. Removing what he didn't like wouldn't make it like the original.


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Re: Outer Caves

Postby j_dean80 » Wednesday February 13th, 2019 11:28pm

Maybe drathe will pop back up and answer. Might take another crash for him to come back.
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Re: Outer Caves

Postby wallydubbs » Thursday February 14th, 2019 5:26pm

StratosVX wrote:
wallydubbs wrote:But really, why wouldn't have drathe caught this?

Nothing says he didn't. I believe the recreated quest books were made to be identical in content to the originals. Removing what he didn't like wouldn't make it like the original.


I suppose that is valid, I guess, considering the Yetis in the solo quests of Frozen Horror, not even Phoenix made adjustments... which is almost surprising considering his change in the Elf Quest pack, regarding Elven Chainmail and Elven Bracers. These were Americanized to begin with, though never playtested. Since steps were never taken to correct these errors, I suppose it's entirely feasible that all drathe did, was format the European quest book into a printable American one.

Comparing drathe's Americanized one and the original (I have both), the quests ARE practically identical, with an exception for the wording(and the infamous secret door in Flight to the Surface that goes nowhere). It's mainly the beginning of the quest book that he changed, with format likened to the start of other American quest books, while cutting out most of the artwork that the European version provides.
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Re: Outer Caves

Postby Jafazo » Friday February 15th, 2019 12:07am

It's a tough challenge for players, no doubt. Here's my solution.
After realizing their situation all players can simply agree to leave the adventure unfinished. By RAW, the rulebook says any unfinished adventures should be revised by Zargon & replayed effectively giving him legal permission to change the falling rock trap to another square or the likes. Even if Zargon refuses to edit the problem, this solution allows the heroes to prepare & handle it more easily. A crafty Wizard could cast Clarivoyance to force Zargon to reveal what lies in the room, including the trap, then the dwarf could disarm it once its been discovered. The Ice Bridge spell scroll would allow you to pass it by RAW. The Wizard could store Pass Through Rock into his ring to cast it twice. Elf can use that elven cloak of passage. Potion of Air Walk could be used etc. If a hero can get past it with one or a few Elixirs of Life, they could simply use them to bring the heroes who died to the situation back to life.
Unless you specify your version I'm going by the US rules.
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