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Simple Leveling system

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Re: Simple Leveling system

Postby Anderas » Saturday February 9th, 2019 2:01am

Some of us also use Skill Cards. You can buy them like equipment, but other than equipment they are gone if a hero dies.

The quest book in my signature was my first shot at balancing versus maxed heroes.

I also came to like the monster perks as used in darklight and Warhammer Quest.

I have
:goblin: move action move, some attack diagonally, some at range
:orc: nothing, except rarely they have a long bow and the shaman may add something
:fimir: having a random chaos spell or swamp spell
:skeleton: attacks diagonally or at range
:zombie: and :skeleton: Can stand up after it died except if you spend another attack on the corpse. The re-lifing takes three turns. (I have made tokens for that: a pile of bones and a half-skeleton)
:mummy: has a random necromancer spell
:chaoswarrior: Can defend on white shields
:gargoyle: can become stone

I use all of them only on rare occasions: when it fits with the theme mostly. If I use the higher level monster perks, I use them in combination with a token system so that I can't eternally stone the Gargoyle for example.

The lower level perks like diagonal and ranged attacking are quite often there: you can see a goblin with a spear instead of a knife almost in every game.


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Re: Simple Leveling system

Postby mitchiemasha » Saturday February 9th, 2019 7:01am

The other undead alternative was to down scale them... A Mummy becomes a zombie, a zombie becomes a skeleton. But, I wasn't such a fan of that. I like the pile of bones, half skeleton idea.


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Re: Simple Leveling system

Postby Dougy Destroyer » Monday February 11th, 2019 7:43am

Andreras and Mitchiemasha you have obviously been playing heroquest for a while. Has anyone made a skill tree or system like I did, that just concentrated on picking skills. Not just getting already assigned skill cards?
That's what I am looking for, I would love if someone has already done something better.
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Re: Simple Leveling system

Postby mitchiemasha » Monday February 11th, 2019 8:56am

There are a few here but some of us find skill trees not very HQ. As players usually prefer to move away from the basic HQ Heroes and develop their own, the unique skill tree is often wasted. The HQ way was always to do the skill via artefacts and weapons. The passing of time finding it or earning the gold to buy it was symbolic of learning the skills to wield it.

Doing it via items a player can twist and turn a hero in any direction they choose after many years of play, sometimes even a step back from 1 direction to pursue another (which helps maintain balance and reduce the need to keep repeatably stacking more B on the same monsters, which doesn't really improve the game at all).

You want Bloodlust, Rage, Death Sight... try Tooth Necklaces, potions etc. For things like shoot twice in 1 turn... Quick Quiver. Remember the Ring of Return, this is the HQ way.

The system I created was to make starting skills have a slight edge over the versions "learned" later on... like Disable Traps is better than the Tool Kit. Agility, Move action Move is better than boots of Agility, which can only implement on rolling a double, doubles always feel special but never explored in HQ.

Instead of creating my own version of a Hero, with his list of skills, each skill is separated out and depending on how much MIND the player gives their Hero, they can pick and choose how they start. We loved creating heroes so there's a good chance those who've stuck around for a play through will want to do the same. Making this a game with in the game. Any new ideas from players will be thought through and added. That's how the Half Orc was created. He hates his kin but once his mind is weakened too much looses the ability to control his bloodlust for Humans, quite similar to a werewolf. 2 very bizarre and uniquely difficult characters to play.

So... I'm not a fan of skill trees but I love reading them to see what new ideas and twist of old... especially the similarities that appear.

The other problem covered when we discussed it last, it shows a new player too much at the start.


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Re: Simple Leveling system

Postby Thor-in » Wednesday February 13th, 2019 3:19pm

You know I really enjoyed reading Phoenix's Imperial Academy. I think that was a good leaving system to bad he didn't finish it as far as I know.

Dougy Destroyer, I like where your headed with this but like Mitchiemasha and Anderas said it needs a little work. I have always found that once the heroes get all the equipment they want, the EW is basically placing a monster on the board to remove it next turn....BORING :roll:

Maybe you could put in some sort of class skills (I know that is more D&D) leveling up system per character. As every 3 quests you get one class skill (as I'm writing this I realized that is kind of what you have already done) or if you want a class skill to level up you need to pay a master and get trained in that skill to gain the point. Or you can do it along the lines of The Adventures Of Link for the NES and after every level you get a set skill and don't let the player choose. Then when you write your own quests you could throw something at the players that is harder then normal (but don't completely kill them off). Which in turn will get easier once the heroes level up as your monsters get harder. So maybe every 3rd quest the monsters get harder and every 4th quest the heroes level up. Just a though, :?: .
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Re: Simple Leveling system

Postby Dougy Destroyer » Friday February 15th, 2019 6:04am

Mitchiemasha whats the point of giving every enemy complicated attack methods and adding a plethora of item and rule additions and then being like skill trees are not very HQ? Everything you have added is not HQ! You can literally just increase every enemies skills up 1 and the game becomes a lot more playable. For example,the chaos warrior would have 4 attack and 5 defense and 4 body points.

Thor-in, for me picking the skills is the fun part. Imagine any RPG video game where you couldn't pick the skills. I definitely agree the quality insn't the best. Its basically high school essay started the night before its due quality haha. But for me it works, I just print the page and get my players to fill in the squares with a colored pencil.
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Re: Simple Leveling system

Postby cornixt » Friday February 15th, 2019 10:28am

A skill tree is no different from someone looking at the full equipment list. If anything, it encourages players to keep playing to get that one skill they really want.


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Re: Simple Leveling system

Postby Anderas » Friday February 15th, 2019 11:06am

Yeah, no need to become religious about one variant.

Cards have the advantage that they're beauties and the players have all the rules they need in front of their nose on the table. I personally like playcards, but then in the meanwhile I have found a very quick way to produce more if I like.

The least work is a table like in most RPG systems. I hate look up tables so that's not for me but others think differently of course.

A middle way could be that equipment card from the NA game system, made beautiful with some pictures.

Then there is a philosophy question. With a tree you can give a figure really a lot of character by detailing certain aspects more and more, at the expense that you produce rules for all the tree branches but then risk that only one branch is used.

With a card system you can have many small tree stumps, with a beginner, an advanced and a master card, thus reducing the risk of not-usage. Then, once they are made, you can set up new heroes with new combinations, enhancing the choice.
If you have every skill only once in the deck, you can also force diversity. With a table or a tree, players quickly munchkin the most effective and take all the same combo. Well, doesn't have to be like that, but it's a risk worth considering.


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Re: Simple Leveling system

Postby mitchiemasha » Friday February 15th, 2019 12:52pm

Dougy Destroyer wrote:and then being like skill trees are not very HQ? Everything you have added is not HQ!


You missed my point...

Skill trees and weapons practically achieve the same thing. It's the way we achieve it that is or isn't "very HQ". When they created HeroQuest they came up with a very unique and simple way for characters to progress, through the purchase or discovery of items. This is the system I prefer and another reason I choose HQ over others for my fantasy fix.

I did mention...

Skill trees are usually linked to a character, as players tend to move away from the default (creating their own) any effort put into a skill tree is wasted. As a creator, it's much better to free up the ideas of those skills to be unlocked via another method. Now players can freely choose to progress down 1 playstyle or back towards another, depending. This also works against the Heroes becoming insanely OP, which tends to be a serious issue.

You can literally just increase every enemies skills up 1 and the game becomes a lot more playable. For example,the chaos warrior would have 4 attack and 5 defense and 4 body points.


No it doesn't. Rolling more dice in no way ever increases the playability of a game. Especially one based on lore and fantasy. It's much better to creatively add variables that fit into the lore, variables that match the fantasy world that surrounds it. Look at a Fimir, it has 3 limbs, that tail is huge, it's a threat, make it one... Oh my god have you seen the size of the Scythe that Skeleton is carrying? Or, perhaps that Gargoyles whip. Goblins are small fast slippery little buggers! Everything fits perfectly!

I agree... my armoury has got a little bit complex, it was never meant to be that way... but, as we played new things kept coming into creation. Once I have the graphical version or the shop deck, it won't be so bad.

I disagree... non of the mechanics I've introduced are complex, most are a retuning of the "best of" ideas found after years searching the deepest darkest threads of boards like these. Ok... Sneak is, but that was a very unique situation I wanted to try. It's only there for the sake of sharing, not for the standard player.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking the OP. I love reading the variables of skill trees, I'm always surprised by a new idea I haven't seen before, as did this one. Wait a min, I've just realise you are the OP! I like you started exactly the same, it wasn't til later that I discovered the advantage of separating out ideas, avoiding the pitfalls. The freedom for players, the mixing and matching, it adds a hole new dimension to exploration, seeing their face as they discover a new variable. If we were to sit down an pay HQ, if you wanted trees, I'd play that... and love it. I'm simply presenting my opinion to you.


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Re: Simple Leveling system

Postby mitchiemasha » Friday February 15th, 2019 1:02pm

Dougy Destroyer wrote:Mitchiemasha whats the point of giving every enemy complicated attack methods


They don't, everything is as normal... except each one has a unique twist that adds a little more spice for the Evil wizard playing them and how the heroes will attempt to face them. It's something that works towards differentiating each type from the other. The more complex ideas are reserved for the uniqueness of an individual quest, and would be noted in the quest notes.

Sticking with the Firmir. Think about it, if you don't kill it when you attack it, there's a good chance that tails going to give you a good bash... your hands are already engaged with it's hands. But that's only the fantasy aspect of why... If you're a dual wielding weaker room clearer, you might want to avoid this guy, leaving him for the more barbarous types. It also works towards giving the EW more attacks, when he's often only placing monsters to be slaughtered. First guy fails, you get an attack before the 2nd chops your beast to pieces. Under the hood, there are a lot of reasons behind every idea. The easy solution is to be like +1 to everything!!!
Last edited by mitchiemasha on Friday February 15th, 2019 1:14pm, edited 1 time in total.


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