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Traps Write-Up

Discuss new Rules for HeroQuest.

Re: Traps Write-Up

Postby Anderas » Tuesday April 9th, 2019 6:36am

There is a second balance mechanism. If the heroes have many potions, the treasure deck is smaller right from the start and therefore more dangerous.

Which is ok as the potions will save you from other dangers.


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Re: Traps Write-Up

Postby wallydubbs » Tuesday April 9th, 2019 9:31am

mitchiemasha wrote:
The Admiral wrote:but the deck is never reshuffled until all treasure cards have been revealed.


Lets have a think about that...
Why reshuffle the deck if it's only the bad cards? I presume you mean the full deck. How large is a dungeon? How many rooms? How many searches? How large is the treasure deck? When limiting searches to 1, how often have you reshuffled the deck? What quest was that in? This is why it's important to use "Plus each item of furniture", 4 searches for each room is too many, 1 search is too little. Now a room with a quest specific, linked to an object, still has a normal search, some rooms have 3, most just 1.

Also...
Shuffling back the bad cards to the good cards is an important mechanic of the original game. There's a reason he made it that way. It symbolises the increasing danger over time. With each search, each good find removed, the tension increases. Wounded, do you take that risk, I guess it depends if you've found the Treasure Hoard yet.


Well for one quest the minimum number of rooms is 3 (Hall of Dwarven Kings). The maximum number being 86 (Dark Company), but these are just 1 off occurences; going by the original quest book the average number of rooms is 10.5333333333.
Going by 1 card per room, the Trial would hand out 10 cards ("nothing of use" in weapons rack room). If you do 1 search per furniture the heroes would potentially draw 22 cards (no card from chests or weapons rack)... which is almost the whole original deck. But the Trial is an exception in itself, a quest specifically designed to hold every monster and piece of furniture.

Quest 4, Prince Magnus' Gold is pretty average, it goes around the board and there are no special quest treasures, and (depending how you play), the gold in the chests can't be searched. 10 rooms + 4 furniture (not counting chests) = 14 cards. That's not too unreasonable.

But then let's look at Frozen Horror, Quest 5 Deadly Depths: all 22 rooms are used, plus 10 furniture, minus 3 noted in the quest notes D, E and F (2 chests and a tomb) to a total of 29 Treasure cards. If you're using just the original + Frozen Horror treasure cards you'd have a total of 30 cards in the deck...
Again, this is all speculative, depending on how many cards are in one's Treasure deck.

My personal Treasure Deck consists of 42 cards, if I cycle through without shuffling, starting from the Maze and working my way up, that would be:
The Maze: 13 Searches
The Trial is moved up to later due to difficulty.
Rescue of Sir Ragnar: 9 searchable rooms, 6 furniture, -3 from quest notes = 12 treasure cards
Lair of the Orc Warlord: 9 rooms, 6 furniture, -2 or -3 from quest notes (the chest is not specific in North America), to a total of 13 Treasure Cards
Prince Magnus' Gold: 10 rooms, 4 furniture, 0 quest notes
14 Treasure Cards.
So either I'd be reshuffling in the middle of Prince Magnus' Gold or at the start of Melar's Maze.

I'm already up to quest 6 with one group, where the Barbarian and Dwarf both have a helmet, the Elf has a crossbow and the Wizard has a staff, dagger and tool kit. I don't really want my heroes to max out too quickly. However, I do want them to have enough gold to buy supplies in preparation for Keller's Keep.
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Re: Traps Write-Up

Postby The Admiral » Tuesday April 9th, 2019 12:58pm

mitchiemasha wrote:Lets have a think about that...
Why reshuffle the deck if it's only the bad cards? I presume you mean the full deck. How large is a dungeon? How many rooms? How many searches? How large is the treasure deck? When limiting searches to 1, how often have you reshuffled the deck? What quest was that in? This is why it's important to use "Plus each item of furniture", 4 searches for each room is too many, 1 search is too little. Now a room with a quest specific, linked to an object, still has a normal search, some rooms have 3, most just 1.

Also...
Shuffling back the bad cards to the good cards is an important mechanic of the original game. There's a reason he made it that way. It symbolises the increasing danger over time. With each search, each good find removed, the tension increases. Wounded, do you take that risk, I guess it depends if you've found the Treasure Hoard yet.


The treasure starts as a full pack and as each card is drawn it is then discarded. When all cards have been discarded the whole deck is shuffled and the process begins again. There is only 1 search per room, and so there will be no cards drawn in rooms with specific treasure. The size of the quest is irrelevant as any remaining cards just carry on to the next quest. This is how we have played since 1990.
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Re: Traps Write-Up

Postby mitchiemasha » Tuesday April 9th, 2019 8:22pm

The Admiral wrote:as any remaining cards just carry on to the next quest. This is how we have played since 1990.


Ohhh! So you keep your deck separated when you pack it away and continue it over multiple quests. That's quite a unique way to play, it would of helped to specify that when you mentioned it originally. Not sure how the deck stays true when different groups play the same set but not much an issue if the group never changes.

If you've played that way since 1990, how do you know the other way isn't better? You've totally missed out on experiencing the ramp in tension, the do I don't I!!!
Last edited by mitchiemasha on Tuesday April 9th, 2019 9:01pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Traps Write-Up

Postby mitchiemasha » Tuesday April 9th, 2019 8:45pm

Anderas wrote:There is a second balance mechanism. If the heroes have many potions, the treasure deck is smaller right from the start and therefore more dangerous.

Which is ok as the potions will save you from other dangers.


Yes, that is very true and why I added a note in the alchemists shop "A potion found in a search must be used before returning it to the deck". Bought potions would be noted on the character sheet, found potions aren't. The Hero would keep the card passing into the next quest, for that session/night of games. I need to think of a better way to write it out though.

Thanks for the maths Wallydubbs. When I asked "What quest was that in?" I meant, what quest was large enough that the deck needed to be reshuffled? Presuming that the deck was reshuffled at the start of every quest and as only 1 search, reshuffling would never happen. Thinking it was a stipulation that didn't need to be. I wasn't aware of the keeping the deck true between quests, which is something I couldn't do, unless in the same night.

Another reason to add the plus items of furniture is, some of the quests to be designed, were going to feature more than 1 specific in a room. If it was always only 1 search, they wouldn't know to search again.


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Re: Traps Write-Up

Postby wallydubbs » Saturday May 18th, 2019 12:14am

So... upon reviewing Frozen Horror once again, there is a question I must ask regarding the Swinging Axe Trap, I'm looking at it with exposed eyes from the Swinging Blade Trap in Against the Ogre Hoard, where the blade swings down from one particular space, usually effecting 2 others as well.
In every Frozen Horror quest that these traps show up, they are bound together in 2's (in one case 4). Should these be viewed as 2 separate traps, or will triggering either space set off a trap that effects both spaces?
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Re: Traps Write-Up

Postby Anderas » Saturday May 18th, 2019 4:47am

The text reads:
The Frozen Horror Swinging Axe Trap wrote:Swinging Axe Trap: When a Hero moves onto this square a huge axe swings out from a hidden alcove in the ceiling. The Hero then rolls 2 Combat Dice and loses 1 Body Point for each Skull rolled. The Hero does not get to roll Defend Dice. A Swinging Axe trap can be searched for and disarmed. Until it is disarmed, a Swinging Axe Trap affects every Hero who steps onto the square. Monsters do not spring Swinging Axe traps.


Looks to me as if the BQP treats each square separately. Which is kind of meh for my feeling, but the text is quite straightforward.


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Re: Traps Write-Up

Postby The Admiral » Saturday May 18th, 2019 12:33pm

mitchiemasha wrote:
The Admiral wrote:as any remaining cards just carry on to the next quest. This is how we have played since 1990.


Ohhh! So you keep your deck separated when you pack it away and continue it over multiple quests. That's quite a unique way to play, it would of helped to specify that when you mentioned it originally. Not sure how the deck stays true when different groups play the same set but not much an issue if the group never changes.

If you've played that way since 1990, how do you know the other way isn't better? You've totally missed out on experiencing the ramp in tension, the do I don't I!!!


Sorry, I missed your reply. We have multiple groups, 7 at the moment, and when each one finishes their series of quests I write down the treasure cards and Evil Wizard cards that are yet to be drawn and recreate those decks when that party plays again.

I agree that there isn't as much tension my way, but it is still there to a lesser extent. But the way we play is very demanding on the Heroes. Quests played in sequence have no recovery of BP's or spells between quests. Once per quest artifacts may only be used once if there are several quests in a row. The Heroes really need eventual guaranteed access to those healing potions in order to survive.
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Re: Traps Write-Up

Postby mitchiemasha » Saturday May 18th, 2019 11:04pm

It does make a lot more sense now you've explained it.


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