sleep spell

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sleep spell

Postby DullandRusty » Thursday June 14th, 2018 1:04am

Out of curiosity, with enemies being unable to wake from "sleep" unless they pass the roll test and being unable to defend, does sleep not seem crazy overpowered? Am I just missing a rule somewhere that says when taking damage they wake up? It really seems like if they take damage with being unable to defend, and then still stay asleep then big major monsters or bosses would be severely nerfed by the sleep spell.
Again, maybe I have just missed the fine print somewhere along the lines, but just wanted to check for certain.
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Re: sleep spell

Postby Josh » Thursday June 14th, 2018 6:32am

I agree & like your view that the enemy should awaken after taking a point of damage.

Perhaps appropriately it would require other Hero's to assist in the powerful creatures death before it's turn , otherwise you could add that the creature immediately awakens after being hit & can now Defend, but maybe that its self is to OP.

Idk, good question.
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Re: sleep spell

Postby Anderas » Thursday June 14th, 2018 6:59am

It is good yes. Then again, bosses and big ones often have 3, 4 or more mind points, which is quite effective against the spell.


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Re: sleep spell

Postby knightkrawler » Thursday June 14th, 2018 8:09am

It was written for the 1st edition where nothing ever had more than 1 BP.
And yes, it needs fixing.
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Re: sleep spell

Postby Big Bene » Thursday June 14th, 2018 12:07pm

It's powerful, but not overpowered. The wizard has not too many effectiv attack spells, anyway. I think the chance of killing a boss (and let the wizard shine for once) is the very purpose of thi spell. As Anderas sayd, it's just a chance, not a sure kill, as bosses have a good chance to shrough it off.
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Re: sleep spell

Postby DullandRusty » Friday June 15th, 2018 12:31am

hmm good points. I'm toying with changing it in my game to waking upon the end of the round they take damage in (which allows all the heroes to beat on the monster/boss for that round to make the spell still worth something, but negates the unlucky waking up rolls round after round and makes the battle more "realistic" if you will). That or it wakes upon a roll test if no damage has occurred (so heroes can put it to sleep and runaway or try to pass by it). it may not be necessary to change, but its just something that seemed flawed to me.
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Re: sleep spell

Postby mitchiemasha » Friday June 15th, 2018 6:29am

It's always good to quote what you're commenting about, that way we don't have to go dig out our cards for a refresh...

SURE ENOUGH!

He will awake if rolling a six at the start of his turn, or if attacked


An enemy also gets to defend instantly against the spell, a powerful enemy will have more Mind, more likely to defend.

He may try to defend himself by rolling one die per Mind point


It doesn't matter if you roll the Red d6 or the Combat d6. Rolling a 6 or a Black Shield is the same thing. If you're using the American spells and this one is different, STOP! Use the UK spells!!!


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Re: sleep spell

Postby Anderas » Friday June 15th, 2018 12:26pm

That evil guy may even defend immediately.

Image

With 3 MP the chance for defending is roughly 42% per die roll. With 4 MP it is 52% per roll.
If you follow the hint in the original system, the wizard is also the last to take his turn.

That makes one roll immediately and one directly after the wizard's turn to protect the model against the sleep spell.

Add the quite little change that bosses have regularly 4, 5 or more mind points (in most cases it is no change really) and you're good. If you're not sure you can give the magical bosses an instant counter spell card.

Now.

If you set free the hero's turn order as it is modern, the sleep spell is way more powerful.

If you just don't follow the advised turn order but establish another one, you make the sleep spell stronger but the heroes pay with other disadvantages.

If you apply the spell combinations raised somewhere else here, the sleep spell gets monstrous strong. There it really needs adaptation.


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Re: sleep spell

Postby DullandRusty » Friday June 15th, 2018 2:24pm

mitchiemasha wrote: If you're using the American spells and this one is different, STOP! Use the UK spells!!!



Thanks for the heads up on the difference in the spells between US and UK. I live here in the US and have long been using the US cards as that's the game I have had since childhood. That is a HUGE difference in game mechanic with the target waking upon attack in UK and not in US.
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Re: sleep spell

Postby j_dean80 » Friday June 15th, 2018 7:28pm

I don't find it overpowered in the US version. Lets say the Wizard finds himself alone - possibly in a solo Quest. He casts Sleep on a "boss", so using up his Action for that turn. The "boss" rolls immediately to break it. Then it is Zargon's turn. The "boss" rolls again to break it. That is 2 chances to wake up before the Wizard even gets a chance to attack.
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