Crossbow Argument

[silkcandy]

Zargon doesn't think heroes should be able to use their crossbows from all the way down the hall or way across the room. The Armory card says it can be used whenever a hero can see a monster, just not from an adjacent square. Does anyone have an answer that will solve this argument once and for all?

[drathe]

Sure do, but you're not going to like it. Zargon is the Game Master, therefore, what Zargon says, goes.

You are technically correct in the rules. An Elf for example, can stand on the furthest left of the longest corridor and shoot a Monster 26 squares away on the other side of the board. But HeroQuest is a customisable game and the Zargon player can tweak the rules as they see fit.

[el_flesh]

The most powerful crossbows could penetrate armour and kill at 200 yards.
Historical evidence would indicate that in the hands of a well-trained longbowman, distances of 250-350 yards were commonly attained.

Then I got:

The modern-day crossbow, equipped with scope and properly sighted in, is a very accurate and lethal weapon. The accurate range of a crossbow is generally regarded as being 40 yards.

Correlate to how big each square on the board is accepted as being, and you will get a range in squares. You can make skulls to hit in optimal range, shields to hit a little farther out, and then black skulls to hit at extreme range. Or get hold of percentile dice at your hobby shop and whip up a to-hit table.

Whap him upside the head with those facts.

[torilen]

typically, in games such as this, one square is equal to five feet
Personally, I see it like this - throwing a weapon would give you about 20ft (4 spaces) to attack -
a sling type weapon might give you 6 or 8 spaces (30-40ft) and a crossbow might give you perhaps
10 spaces or so (50ft) - a regular bow might give up to 16 spaces (around 80ft) - if you're
looking for accuracy, that is - further if you decrease the accuracy - in which case, you could make
them roll 1 red die for the attack - a roll of 3, 4, or 5 might give the full attack, a roll of 1 or 2 might
give you -1 skull rolled, and a roll of 6 might give you a -2 skulls rolled

something like that might work

[el_flesh]

taking a fig of 30 yards for accuracy that gives you about 90 feet!
that's 18 squares away! For an accurate hit!

so then maybe 19-23 = white shield to hit and the rest = black skull to hit...
or else percentiles...

[silkcandy]

Wow I know Zargon is the grand ruler, and we lowly heroes have no say in the rules (especially with "Natzi Zargon"; my pet name for L.V. ) by the way: "Natzi Zargon" says it should only be a maximum of 5-8 squares. He says the arrows will hit the ceiling. Another thing he is giving us an issue about "when the heroes search a room for traps, and if there happens to be more then one trap, why does he have to tell us where all of them are in the room? Why can't he just tell us where one is?"

Thank you for your opinions, I personally think they would be fair "Natzi Zargon" thinks differently

[el_flesh]

'Nazi Zarquon' is forgetting who the hell provides the finer pleasures in life...heh heh heh...

It's sposed to be fun for everyone. So are you all having fun under those rules? It all depends how much reality you want to interject. As a Zarquon, I would accept the crossbow explanation if I didn't know their range (which I actually didn't!) and then was told what I found out by the gameplayer! I would also accept that when they search a room for traps they are searching the whole effing room. You can't eff how many traps there are in a room without searching all of it! Do you think the FBI stop searching a crime scene when they find ONE clue?!?
honestly....

I shyure as *lemony goodness* don't want to start any trouble within your 'ousehold...but I think Zarquon could stand to join this forum and get some exposure to more ideas....dammit.

[drathe]

He is a forum member here. Not sure how much he's read though. Hasn't left comments yet. But some folk just like to sit back and enjoy the show!

[jester67]

Hey drathe

Ok you win. I'll post my opinion. I don't see how a hero can turn a corner in a corridor, say "I'm searching for traps," spot a trap 26 squares away (yes I counted them) the hero has to move all the way down there to disarm it. What did the hero do, run all the way down there searching and then run all the way back!? As for the crossbow issue, to shoot that far, the hero would have to elevate their shot or it would be bouncing off the ceiling; it's a dungeon after all, wouldn't the arrow be hitting the ceiling and walls? I always thought the rules were way too vague.

[el_flesh]

whoa - now those are good points. I didn't understand about hitting the ceiling! Of course you're correct! Now the research would have to be how fast the bolt leaves the crossbow. It is then a simple matter of maths to determine how far it can travel before hitting the ground - therefore having a chance to pass thru the open legs of most creatures! For the short goblin and Orc, you can give more range, because the bolt can fire upwards at the same rate as a taller creature, yet drop down further and still hit their lower-to-the-ground chest.
This is such a good question that I will put it to my very experienced DM later today! (HEY It's SATURDAY!! WOOHOO!!!)

As for the corridor search, our DM has already made a vision limit rule - the barb, despite being taller, has a vision range of 7 squares, 6 with wearing a helmet. While my necromantic, dark adjusted vision is 10. This is how far one can look for a trap, but it is a dice roll. snake eyes - you happen to be standing on a trap and it fires, regardless of whether it is on the DM map or not! Double sixes and you know for certain there are no traps - or you are sure that that quivering section of wall or ground or ceiling is most definitely a badly concealed trap! Everything in between is a % of what you roll. ("You find nothing." "You think maybe the ceiling might have something, but you can't see anything else." "You're not sure of what you see.") And to disarm, you have to be right next to it, of course. Our crew likes to blast ahead without even checking anyway. The Samurai wound up using a couple health potions from not checking, or rolling badly when he did:



And being a Samurai, he was played that way - bravely barging ahead without fear!

Different races have different vision ranges. The elf, of course, can see super far, and has +2 detect roll.
Once we get into some outdoor adventures, the necromancer's LOS is going to drop right the hell down - he hates the sunlight!

So I'm quite glad you posted, jester! Now I fully understand your position on those topics, and they sure have merit!
See what happens all you silent readers out there when you post?!?
MUCH MORE MATERIAL TO READ!!!
wooohooo!