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Q3: "A Desperate Escape" by TMU & MrBigB [EARLY VERSION]

Quests for the HeroQuest 25th Anniversary Quest Pack.
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Re: Q3: "A Desperate Escape" by TMU & MrBigB [EARLY VERSION]

Postby j_dean80 » Thursday September 13th, 2018 8:24am

Anderas wrote:Quest notes:
* Am I right the symbols next to the tomb to be HQ25 cultists?

Assumptions:
* I play the first two rooms with one-die-equipment, afterwards i go on with 2-die-equipment
* 3 wandering monsters are drawn

Results:
* The center room with 3 Goblins and 2 Fimirs draw most blood, 3.6 BP. Next is the Chaos Warrior guarding the exit with 3.5 BP; then comes the mummy.
* The three wandering monsters take 3.5 BP

* In total, 18 BP are taken by fights, 3.5 BP by traps, that's almost perfect as quest difficulties go for adult players (maybe one death, maybe not)


Glad it came out balanced.
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Re: Q3: "A Desperate Escape" by TMU & MrBigB [EARLY VERSION]

Postby Anderas » Thursday September 13th, 2018 8:40am

on second thought... the Trial has 21 BP, too...

well, ok. Let's assume we do quests for adult players here. Also, there is a Potion of Healing. I certainly would play this. :)

Maybe... just change the wandering Monster to Goblin? That's -3.3 BP damage, so goes down a little bit better?


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Q3: A Desperate Escape (Prelude to Chaos III)

Postby Anderas » Thursday October 18th, 2018 5:47am

I was just trying to do the wrap up.

The 22 BP difficulty still doesn't sit well with me. (17.4 BP Monsters + wandering monsters, 4.5 BP traps) The monsters alone are ok, the traps plus the monsters plus the wandering monsters are a little bit lot.

I would say the quest as presented would be perfect for a group with 2.6 dice equipment: For 3 Dice, it's a walk in the park, for a group with 2 dice, its like "The Trial".

So, for my feeling it's a bit too much (The Trial turns out to be quite frustrating).

The main drivers for the danger are:
* The Mummy that will be encountered by a single hero and has two traps adjacent
* The Chaos Warrior, because only a limited number of heroes can fight it
* The falling block trap among the Orc and Goblins in the lower right
* The center room that delivers something resembling a boss fight

Those elements are key quest design elements and quite entertaining. So If I want to reduce the difficulty, I would go looking somewhere else for something I could do.

I remade this quest in Heroscribe to make this proposal:

Image

You see the yellow Orcs? I would remove them. This is one proposal.
It removes about 1.5 BP of damage, still keeping the quest quite deep in the "danger zone", so going exploring will be no option, but at least it removes the more-or-less guaranteed killing of one hero.

The other idea would be to keep the quest layout monsters where they are, but to replace the wandering monster by a Goblin. That would remove about 1.6 BP of damage.

For real beginner players, it would be nice to do both. That would then bring the quest down to the area where it is indeed still dangerous, but at least you can afford to search for treasure sometimes.

Finally, 150 gold for each one, plus 150 gold from the chest in the quest, that adds up to 750 gold for the group. Wow, that's a step.
I would prefer to go a bit slower, and give 50 gold to each hero. That makes 350 gold for the quest, that's not too bad already! I added this value to the overview spreadsheet.

Then it looks like that:
Image
Recommended equipment: 2 dice

Quest 3 (Prelude to Chaos III)
A Desperate Escape
It was a trap! Finish clearing the dungeon and find your way out the exit door to receive your reward of 50 Gold Coins each.


Notes:

A: Heroes who made it to the stairway in Quest 2 begin on the stairway. Heroes defeated in Quest 2 find themselves awakening in the cell with no weapons or armor. The locked door can only be opened by the Dwarf rolling anything but a black shield with one combat die.
B: This room is filled with the mangled corpse of the missing villagers. The level of brutality is far beyond normal Greenskins… something is behind this.

C: The Weapon’s Rack contains the missing weapons and armor. The Chest is full of rags and rusty junk.

D: These secret doors each close and seal once a Hero passes through them.

E: This secret door can only be opened from the tomb side. The Chest on the right contains 150 Gold Coins and the Chest on the left contains a Potion of Healing. When taken, the Potion will restore up to four lost Body Points.

Wandering Monster: Goblin


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Re: Q3: "A Desperate Escape" by TMU & MrBigB [EARLY VERSION]

Postby wallydubbs » Tuesday October 30th, 2018 8:24am

I actually like the concept of some heroes being captured while the rest start off in the stairwell. This suggestion more so effects Quest 2; maybe it shouldn't be insanely difficult, but hard enough to kill one or two heroes. For the sake of continuity it's pretty cool to have the optional ending conditions of the last quest effect the beginning of this quest.
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Re: Q3: "A Desperate Escape" by TMU & MrBigB [EARLY VERSION]

Postby Daedalus » Wednesday December 5th, 2018 1:27am

Anderas wrote:. . . You see the yellow Orcs? I would remove them. This is one proposal.
It removes about 1.5 BP of damage, still keeping the quest quite deep in the "danger zone", so going exploring will be no option, but at least it removes the more-or-less guaranteed killing of one hero.

The other idea would be to keep the quest layout monsters where they are, but to replace the wandering monster by a Goblin. That would remove about 1.6 BP of damage.

For real beginner players, it would be nice to do both. That would then bring the quest down to the area where it is indeed still dangerous, but at least you can afford to search for treasure sometimes.

I would prefer to see both modifications used for the sake of inclusion. Many downloaders (I hope) will be playing this with family or players new to the game. Losing this Quest (should that unfortunate event come about) just after being spanked in the previous Quest might cause a group new Heroes to lose heart.

Anderas wrote:Finally, 150 gold for each one, plus 150 gold from the chest in the quest, that adds up to 750 gold for the group. Wow, that's a step.
I would prefer to go a bit slower, and give 50 gold to each hero. That makes 350 gold for the quest, that's not too bad already! I added this value to the overview spreadsheet. . . .

I agree 350 gold coins is preferable. Better yet, reduce the chest to 75 gold coins for a total 275 gold coins. I'll go further and suggest we tie the Quest reward to the heroic undertaking of more rescues. The Parchment Text could use an injection of theme, in my opinion. This was something j_dean80 was leaving for others to take up.

About the Quest Map: I couldn't view Anderas' map, so my comments apply to j_dean80's map. This Quest calls for 18 doors. Two will need to be dropped to keep with the Game System.

Anderas wrote:
Quest 3 (Prelude to Chaos III)
A Desperate Escape
It was a trap! Finish clearing the dungeon and find your way out the exit door to receive your reward of 50 Gold Coins each.

    "It was a trap! You must now overcome the jailers and escape through the wooden exit door to freedom. The village leader has pledged a 50 gold coin reward for each captive you rescue."

Anderas wrote:Notes:

A: Heroes who made it to the stairway in Quest 2 begin on the stairway. Heroes defeated in Quest 2 find themselves awakening in the cell with no weapons or armor. The locked door can only be opened by the Dwarf rolling anything but a black shield with one combat die.

    NOTES:

    A: Heroes who made it to the stairway in Quest 2 begin on the stairway. A portcullis now blocks off the top of the stairs. Heroes defeated in Quest 2 find themselves awakening in the cell with no weapons or armor. Spellcasters only start with any unused spells from the previous Quest. There is no treasure in the cell. The locked door can either be opened with a Fire of Wrath or Genie spell, or by the Dwarf rolling anything but a black shield with one Combat Die.
It's possible the Dwarf wasn't captured in Quest 2 while other Heroes were. Better spellcasters have their own chance to escape with a Genie opening a door (finally!) I added Fire of Wrath because of the card art and because Baker originally had the spell blast doors (it's optional.) Pass Through Rock can also prove useful, so I'm adding a key nearby.

Anderas wrote:B: This room is filled with the mangled corpse of the missing villagers. The level of brutality is far beyond normal Greenskins… something is behind this.

This room has a dark tone. My opinion is our expansion should aim to keep the vanilla, kid-friendly feel of published Hero Quest. Let the Heroes be heroic and rescue them. :2cents: If I'm alone on this, then ignore my alternate room:

    B: This room is locked. Gnarg holds the key in Room G. The door can also be opened by a Genie or Fire of Wrath spell. Four villagers are inside. Give a Villager tile to any Hero that enters. A 50 gold coin reward is earned by each Hero with a Villager at the end of the Quest. There is no Treasure here.
I hope it's clear that a Hero who dies or doesn't enter Room B loses his part of the reward.

Anderas wrote:C: The Weapon’s Rack contains the missing weapons and armor. The Chest is full of rags and rusty junk.

    C: A search for treasure will find any of the Heroes' missing equipment on the weapons rack and in the chest. If the Elf or Wizard were captured, they regain any spells not yet cast this Quest.

Anderas wrote:D: These secret doors each close and seal once a Hero passes through them.

Are we going with NA-style falling block traps on maps, or will the Quest Pack be written separately for each system? I ask because an NA falling block trap placed between the secret doors could take the place of this note.

Anderas wrote:E: This secret door can only be opened from the tomb side. The Chest on the right contains 150 Gold Coins and the Chest on the left contains a Potion of Healing. When taken, the Potion will restore up to four lost Body Points.

Wandering Monster: Goblin

    E: This secret door can only be opened from the throne side. The chest on the right contains 75 Gold Coins and the chest on the left contains a Potion of Healing. The Potion will restore up to four lost Body Points when consumed.

    Wandering Monster: :goblin: Goblin

That's it for the Quest as presented, but there still remains the matter of facing Gnarg as a reoccurring villain.

TMU from the Chasing Glory topic wrote:. . .
E - This (re-occuring monster X) is the leader of this group. Its stats are as follows:
Move X
Attack X Defense X
Body X Mind X

. . . If the reoccuring monster loses its minions or its own bodypoints, it escapes trough a pit trap underneath it. Mentor tells the heroes to follow it. Still need to find a way to add this to the quest notes :)

I don't think Mentor needs to tell the Heroes to follow. However, a payback boss-fight with Gnarg that the Heroes can win is definitely in order. All that is needed is a note for the central room and an Orc Shaman icon between the two Fimirs. As this bumps the difficulty, a reduction of monsters somewhere may be in order.

    F: To escape, the Heroes must finally defeat the Orc Shaman. This time Gnarg has just three Chaos spells: Fear, Tempest, and Sleep.
    ___________________________________________________________
    Move
    . .. . . Attack . . .. . Defense . . .. . Body . .. . . Mind
    . .8 . . . . . . . .. 4 . . . . . . . . . ..4 . . . . . . . . ..4 . . . . . . . ..5
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The first Hero to search for treasure will find the Adamantine Epaulets. Give the Hero the matching Artifact Card.
Actually, Quest flow should dictate the central room be labeled D, not F. That would bump the labels for rooms D and E. I included an artifact to help out with the added difficultly from the Shaman. The central room was chosen to insure it couldn't be missed.
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Re: Q3: "A Desperate Escape" by TMU & MrBigB [EARLY VERSION]

Postby j_dean80 » Wednesday December 5th, 2018 8:23am

I wouldn't use a falling block trap so not to keep adding BP loss. That Hero already fights the mummy alone.

An Orc Shaman icon cannot be used as that figure is from an expansion. Will need a note about notched sword Orc.

I agree about the "dark room". I was just keeping the original text.

I knew the Dwarf may not be in the cell. I like the added Spells to open the door, or the other Heroes must sit and wait for the Dwarf to get there. Perhaps the Wizard can use Pass Through Rock and go on a solo mission for the key to free his comrades. I would give a key to a Goblin jailer somewhere.

I read somewhere that additional doors are allowed in the Pack. If not, I can tweak the map up.
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Re: Q3: "A Desperate Escape" by TMU & MrBigB [EARLY VERSION]

Postby Daedalus » Wednesday December 5th, 2018 2:09pm

Yes, you are right about the falling block trap. The original note is best.

I thought excusing an icon would be okay, as it easily fits on a map. But yes, it would be best to amend the note. I'll call it Room D this time. The D is placed between the Fimir instead:

    D: The Orc Shaman stands at the space marked "D." Use the Orc with the notched sword to represent Gnarg. To escape, the Heroes must finally defeat him. This time Gnarg has just three Chaos spells: Fear, Tempest, and Sleep.
    ___________________________________________________________
    Move . .. . . Attack . . .. . Defense . . .. . Body . .. . . Mind
    . .8 . . . . . . . .. 4 . . . . . . . . . ..4 . . . . . . . . ..4 . . . . . . . ..5
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The first Hero to search for treasure will find the Adamantine Epaulets. Give the Hero the matching Artifact Card.

I'm glad someone else agrees about the mangled corpses.

Yeah, Pass Through Rock is more likely to be available after the last Quest. Thanks for pointing out the missing key. One of the Goblins can have it like you suggest, but another Room note will be needed. It's all gotta fit with notes A to C in 19 lines at most, so I'll need to trim the note for Room A. (I'll rewrite all the text in my next post.) Notes for rooms C onward will need to be bumped. Here's the new room note:

    C: One of the Goblins has key that opens the cells at A and B.
Other than figures for the six new monsters, I only remember the Design Document calling for components from one Game System to play. Anything else must be part of the included PDFs.
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Re: Q3: "A Desperate Escape" by TMU & MrBigB [EARLY VERSION]

Postby Anderas » Wednesday December 5th, 2018 3:03pm

Yes but

I have one mission that calls for some extra doors

So I will include a sheet of doors in the PDF.


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Re: Q3: "A Desperate Escape" by TMU & MrBigB [EARLY VERSION]

Postby Daedalus » Wednesday December 5th, 2018 4:40pm

I'll need to take a look at the mission. Was it the stealth Quest? The problem is door bases are limited to 16. Perhaps you can create a note that explains how to reuse doors from earlier in the Quest.
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Re: Q3: "A Desperate Escape" by TMU & MrBigB [EARLY VERSION]

Postby Anderas » Wednesday December 5th, 2018 5:33pm

Yes the stealth quest it is. You can work around by using secret doors and everything, and it will work. However it would be nice to have some door standees extra.


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