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A more interactive HQ

Discuss new Rules for HeroQuest.

A more interactive HQ

Postby Sotiris » Saturday June 21st, 2014 6:36am

Here are some of my/your thoughts about a campaign based on the original quests but played with more active role from heroes' side by choosing their next available quest, store items in city's safety etc. and more interesting playing for Zargon player.

DUNGEON RULES
First of all there are 10 heroes, all classic figures from HQ, AHQ (some skills are represented by tokens):
edit:check here for the final set of heroes and brief rules viewtopic.php?f=162&t=2654
Image
1) All treasure cards, from all of the expansions are included in the deck (except 1 Potion of Warmth and 2 Magic Resistanse Pootions from the frozen horror pack, the resistanse potion from Wizards of Zargon are enough). I have also added the Nothing card: in the dungeons (KK, RotWL etc) this card represents the Hidden Merchant enabling the heroes to purchase items from him instead of travelling back to a City at the end of a quest.

2) If your hero dies, you select another one from the available. You may not select the same unless all of the 10 heroes have died, then you unlock again a new set of 10 heroes. Every hero's death gives an advatage to Zargon player: he chooses a treasure card and removes it permanently from the game (it lasts for all over the campaign). edit: Zargon gains Tokens equal to the number of the remaining heroes on the board. On your next turn you may enter the quest with a new hero or the same one but with +1XP penalty. Each XP penalty is added permanent to the value of potions and scrolls of the Special Shop for that hero.

3) Searching extra rule: every furniture that is not adjacent to the searcher, needs an extra treasure search. <- chests only

4) Xp point system. A hero grants 1xp with every completed quest. When he reaches the champion status (3 completed quests) he has access to a special shop where he may buy the following potions/scrolls by crossing off the equivalent xp (+1 xp cost for each penalty the hero has):
- 1 potion (strength, defense or heroic)= 1xp
- 1 random Elf spell (Elf spells are spellscrolls for Heroes with min M.P.=4 or a Lore Talisman bearer)= 2xp
- 1 spell set from Wizards of Zargon pack (the Lore Talisman bearer or a Hero with min M.P.=5 may choose a set of 3 scrolls from an available spell college)= 3xp

5) Chaos tokens.
Zargon begins each quest with tokens=heroes. He gains 1 token every 10 rounds in the dungeon or every 1 round in the map (explained later). When using 1 token, he may use a monster's skill. Unused tokens can be kept for the next quest.

:goblin: move-hit-continue move
:orc: reroll 1 battle die
:fimir: hero's defense succeeds only with black shields (use this token before fimir's attack roll)
:skeleton: can combine its attack dice with other undead monster's attack (example:1skeleton+1mummy=5 attack dice)
:zombie: diagonal attack
:mummy: draw 1 random chaos spell (except mass spells) which can use it immediately or on a future turn
:chaoswarrior: may defend with white shields (use this token on Zargon's turn)
:gargoyle: counter whip attack. When defending, your black shields in excess return damage to the attacker which may be not defended (use this token on Zargon's turn)

OGRE (all types): push/grab hero. Change your opponent's position after a successful attack, max squares=damage you dealt (use this token before ogre's attack)

MAP RULES
This is the world map.
Image
C9: Melar's Maze, C11: Bastion of Chaos
D8: The Trial, D10: Rescue of Sir Ragnar, D11: Race Against Time
E7: Castle of Mystery, E8: The Lost Wizard, E9: Prince Magnus' Gold
F8: Barak Tor: Barrow of the Witch Lord, F9: The Fire Mage


1) Monster's hand icon on the map represents a Quest location. There are 10 active Quests (full opacity). The rest of the quests are locked yet (half opacity). When heroes travel to an adjacent square they get from Zargon the quest's text and keep it until they decide to enter and play the quest. They may not pass from a Quest location if they don't wish to play it.

2) Heroes are travelling all together and they never split up. Movement=2 squares, with horses=4 squares. If during the 1st turn, after a quest is played, enter to another quest Zargon doesn't gain his token of the current round.

3) Regular shop (gold coins)=into the cities. Special shop (xp)=everywhere

4) Timeline (with some intros-conclusions altered):
- Heroes begin from the city in D9. Zargon reads the intro of the Game System and then they start with the “Maze” quest.

- After completing the “Maze” they receive 4 letters which are the quest texts from the 4 adjacent quests.

- When “Rescue of Sir Ragnar”quest is played, a new quest unlocks: “Lair of the Orc Warlord” on F10 (make it full opacity with your pen)

- After this quest is played, Zargon keeps in track heroes' movement squares. On their 3rd 7th square Zargon stops them immediately and reads the text of the “Legacy of the Orc Warlord”, which is the next quest that takes place on F7 (put the heroes immediately onto this location).

- “Quest for the spirit Blade” unlocks on G6 after “Barak Tor: Barrow of the Witch Lord” is played. Heroes must discover by themselves that they have to return back in F8 for the quest “Return to Barak Tor” (Zargon shall not forget to give them the quest's text if heroes travel to an adjacent square by accident). Zargon delivers immediately the quest text of “Return to Barak Tor” after the “Quest for the spirit Blade” is played.

- When all of the basic quests are played, Zargon reads/delivers the conclusion of the game system's book and then continues with Kellar's Keep (E10) and Return of the Witch Lord (B7) intros. Unlock both locations on the map. The quests of each pack may be played only as the original order. Heroes may choose to go back at any time to purchase items or even get into the other dungeon.
edit: if Witchlord was killed in the last quest delay the RotWL intro by 3 quests.

- When both dungeons are over, Zargon reads/delivers the intros of “Against the Ogre Horde” and “Wizards of Zargon” and reveals the next locations:
B8: Lair of the Orc Shaman, D6: Eyrie of the Storm Master, F6: Tower of the High Mage
H6: Crypt of the necromancer, H10: Against the Ogre Horde (dungeon)

- When all 4 wizards of Zargon have been killed, “The Final Conflict” unlocks on I8.

- After the end of both expansions, Zargon reads/delivers the intros of “Mage of the Mirror” (“The Elven Prospector” F4), “The Frozen Horror” (A10) and “The Dark Company” (C4) packs (edit: maybe the Dark Company it's better to be delivered later, after the NA expansions).

- After “The elven Prospector” has been played, heroes unlock “The Alchemist's Laboratory” F2. Then they unlock “Tormuk's Guests” on G3 and finally the last 4 quests of the pack on F3 (dungeon).

- When all of these quests played successful, then it's time to confront Zargon at his island. “The Last Battle” unlocks on C1. Zargon player will design this quest. Suggestion for Zargon's stats:
Body 6, Mind 8, Movement: 7, Attack: 1, Defense: 2
Skills:
- 16 Chaos spells cards (choose from the total of 28)
- wand of magic (as the original but spends 1 token when casting the 2nd spell)
- 1 black shield blocks all sculls when defending
- heroes may not defend from Zargon's physical attack

SHOP
original armory +the following:
spear (200 gold coins): 2 a.d.+diagonally, may be thrown
bracers (150 gold coins) +1 d.d. For wizards only (may not be combined with “Wizard's Cloak”)


Extra (Champions only):
Horses (for all heroes) – 500 gold coins, +2 map movement

Hire Mercenary (EU stats) - 50/75 gold coins, 10 for upkeep or 20 if mounted. 1 mercenary per hero - 1 type of mercenary per quest - Warriors choose first (heroes with highest B.P.)

Potion of Dexterity - 100 gold coins
This sparkling liquid adds 5 movement squares to your die roll or guarantees 1 successful pit jump. You may use only 1 potion per turn.

Venom Antidote - 300 gold coins
This bubbling brew tastes foul but heals up to 2 Body points of damage caused only by poison needles, darts or gas (which may not be healed with regular potions). It also cures a hero from werewolf’s curse.

Potion of Battle - 200 gold coins
If you have a really “weak” roll of the attack dice, you may drink this blood-red potion. It allows you 1 re-roll of your attack dice.

Potion of Restoration - 400 gold coins
Drink this brown, frothy liquid to restore 1 lost Body and Mind point.

Potion of Vision - 300 gold coins
When you drink this potion it enables you to see all secret doors and traps until the end of your next turn.

Potion of Healing - 500 gold coins
You can drink this bluish liquid at any time, restoring the number of lost Body points equal to a roll of one red die.

Potion of Recall - 400 gold coins
Any spellcaster who drinks this greenish mixture regains a spell which was cast earlier during the current quest.


All cards are the same except the following additions/changes:
Image
Every text that contains the word “wizard” refers to the Druid and Wizard
Every text that contains the word “elf” refers to the Thief, Cleric and Bard edit: and Ranger (i forgot him!)
Dungeon penalty (no horses inside): every completed quest counts as a movement square on the map. If heroes, between quest 8 and 9 of a dungeon decide to return to a city for shopping, Zargon gains 4 tokens for the 4 rounds that heroes spent while returning back. The same penalty exists when heroes enter again the dungeon to continue the 9th quest.

Zargon player may add his houserules as he thinks it's better (different map locations, different monster/heroes skills, no clockwise turn). edit: he may also throw new quests and quest packs into the campaign making them unlock soon or later (depending on their difficulty).
I just wrote the most important and wanted to share my idea with the community.
Would this run normally? Thanks for reading!
Last edited by Sotiris on Sunday January 24th, 2016 5:41am, edited 8 times in total.


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Re: A different run

Postby Sjeng » Saturday June 21st, 2014 6:53am

sounds interesting! I like how you made the map. Are those locations good approximations of the actual locations? And if so, where did you find information about the quest's whereabouts? Or did you just randomly place them on the map?

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Re: A different run

Postby Sotiris » Saturday June 21st, 2014 7:18am

I altered this map http://www.heroscribe.org/baloban/
As you see few of the locations ar real. The rest (which are not mentioned somewhere) are randomly placed but with a logical order (mine=mountain, 1 city inside THE EMPIRE etc)


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Re: A different run

Postby TMU » Saturday June 21st, 2014 9:36am

Idk does it matter but your druid and wizard cards figures on the backround aren't showing head as other cards :P
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Re: A different run

Postby Bob-Bob » Sunday June 22nd, 2014 11:15pm

I really love the idea of tying all the quests together on a world map. I also like the different class abilities.

I do think some of your rules make the game a little too difficult, though. But you also said the Zargon player could add house rules as they saw fit, so it's not too much trouble.

Incidentally, the Japanese version of the game actually does have a map of the game's setting on the back of the rule book. I wonder if something like this could be applied to that...
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Re: A different run

Postby Daedalus » Tuesday June 24th, 2014 3:23am

Sotiris wrote:5) Chaos tokens.
Zargon begins each quest with tokens=heroes. He gains 1 token every 10 rounds in the dungeon or every 1 round in the map (explained later). When using 1 token, he may use a monster's skill. Unused tokens can be kept for the next quest.

How does the Morcar/Zargon player keep track of tokens between Quests, when the game is put away? Perhaps a ziplock bag would work.

Sotiris wrote:1) Monster's hand icon on the map represents a Quest location. There are 10 active Quests (full opacity). The rest of the quests are locked yet (half opacity). When heroes travel to an adjacent square they get from Zargon the quest's text and keep it until they decide to enter and play the quest. They may not pass from a Quest location if they don't wish to play it.

How do the players store available Quest texts when the game is put away? An envelope would serve well, I think.

A Quest isn't successfully completed if either all the Heroes die or all surviving Heroes exit the stairway tile without achieving the Quest objective. May the Heroes pass from the Quest location in either case?

Sotiris wrote:2) Heroes are travelling all together and they never split up. Movement=2 squares, with horses=4 squares. If during the 1st turn, after a quest is played, enter to another quest Zargon doesn't gain his token of the current round.

I like the horse idea, as this will help out with farther locations at higher levels. The 1st turn rule disallowing a token doesn't seem necessary, as this special case only accounts for 1/10th of a monster skill use. I'd simplify and remove this exception to map movement.

Sotiris wrote:4) Timeline (with some intros-conclusions altered):
- Heroes begin from the city in D9. Zargon reads the intro of the Game System and then they start with the “Maze” quest.

- After completing the “Maze” they receive 4 letters which are the quest texts from the 4 adjacent quests.

A ready envelope for the Morcar/Zargon player to give to the players sounds useful, here. They keep it for Quest texts discovered, but not yet played. Otherwise the players can simply have the Quest texts read to them.

Sotiris wrote:- When “Rescue of Sir Ragnar”quest is played, a new quest unlocks: “Lair of the Orc Warlord” on F7 (make it full opacity with your pen)

I like this.

Sotiris wrote:- After this quest is played, Zargon keeps in track heroes' movement squares. On their 3rd square Zargon stops them immediately and reads the text of the “Legacy of the Orc Warlord”, which is the next quest that takes place on F10 (put the heroes immediately onto this location).

The Legacy of the Orc Warlord fluff refers to capture after several months of killing Ulag. Intentional travelling by the Heroes of three map squares is so concrete it doesn't capture several months of intermission well. If you do so, you're introducing a time-distance relation that will later translate to decades of movement on the map throughout the later Quests. This won't work for RotWL, which requires "many days of travel" but is 5 map squares away from the home city--more than the three squares/several months travel preceding Legacy of the Orc Warlord. I'd unlock and read Legacy of the Orc Warlord as the third Quest following Lair of the Orc Warlord, following the original Quest order. That abstractly works out to a couple of months between each Quest.

Sotiris wrote:- “Quest for the spirit Blade” unlocks on G6 after“Barak Tor: Barrow of the Witch Lord” and then heroes must discover by themselves that they have to return back in F8 for the quest “Return to Barak Tor” (Zargon shall not forget to give them the quest's text if heroes travel to an adjacent square by accident)

I'd read/give the Quest Parchment Text from Return to Barak Tor immediately upon completing Quest for the Spirit Blade, then let the players decide when to travel back to Barak Tor. The Parchment Text of Quest for the Spirit Blade feels somewhat ambivalent to me, and it may not be enough for a group of players to decide upon. They could interpret "return the blade to safety" as fulfilling the objective. Attacking the Witch Lord requires movement to be spent, so players may be reluctant to commit if it isn't the only option remaining. If they instead undertake other available Quests, they may flounder later as to what needs to be done. My ammendment would make progressing simpler, but would cut out the thinking. Whatever floats your boat.

Except for the NA Quest 1, The Trial, the Quests of the Main Game System generally progress in difficulty. This is a concern for me, as that means the Heroes could quickly stumble upon the final Quests of the original order before first completing the easier Quests and gearing up. I think that could result in some quick deaths, simply because the wrong Quest was entered. I'd at least add an unlock for Barak Tor--Barrow of the Witch Lord for this reason.

Starting with the four adjacent Quests that are given to the players is a good idea, which partially addresses the problem. However, I'd switch The Trial to a farther location as it's harder than half of the Quests. The Lost Wizard is a bit easier, if you must have all adjacent sides blocked to the city (I'd just leave the square vacant). The Trial should also have the Parchment Text altered, even if you don't move it. It isn't automatically the first Quest anymore.

Sotiris wrote:When all of the basic quests are played, Zargon reads/delivers the conclusion of the game system's book and then continues with Kellar's Keep (E10) and Return of the Witch Lord (B7) intros. Unlock both locations on the map. The quests of each pack may be played only as the original order. Heroes may choose to go back at any time to purchase items or even get into the other dungeon.

KK is easier than RotWL, so I'd first unlock KK, then RotWL after it is completed. It's also nice for the Witch Lord to disappear for a while so that his return isn't so sudden and automatic--"Hey, we just killed this guy!" It should take time to return from destruction by Spirit Blade so that that victory feels rewarding.

Sotiris wrote:Dungeon penalty (no horses inside): every completed quest counts as a movement square on the map. If heroes, between quest 8 and 9 of a dungeon decide to return to a city for shopping, Zargon gains 4 tokens for the 4 rounds that heroes spent while returning back. The same penalty exists when heroes enter again the dungeon to continue the 9th quest.

Do you mean returning between 8 and 9 rounds (a full set of turns at the table) of a Quest? I'm generally confused by the 4-turn penalty. Is the intention an 8-token penalty for shopping before a Quest is completed? How did you come upon 4 as a traveling penalty? Why not count the map squares traveled, instead?

Sotiris wrote:Zargon player may add his houserules as he thinks it's better (different map locations, different monster/heroes skills, no clockwise turn). I just wrote the most important and wanted to share my idea with the community.
Would this run normally? Thanks for reading!

At first I didn't intend to get so involved and wordy. I haven't thought about this as much as you, but there is a lot to consider. I hope some of my observations and opinions prove useful. Overall, I like the map idea!
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Re: A different run

Postby Gold Bearer » Tuesday June 24th, 2014 6:38am

Nice idea and well implemented, I had something like this in mind for the Altdorf Chronicles, but it might work slightly better with custom made quests that are designed with this in mind.
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

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Re: A different run

Postby Sotiris » Tuesday June 24th, 2014 7:00am

Daedalus wrote:
Sotiris wrote:Dungeon penalty (no horses inside): every completed quest counts as a movement square on the map. If heroes, between quest 8 and 9 of a dungeon decide to return to a city for shopping, Zargon gains 4 tokens for the 4 rounds that heroes spent while returning back. The same penalty exists when heroes enter again the dungeon to continue the 9th quest.

Do you mean returning between 8 and 9 rounds (a full set of turns at the table) of a Quest? I'm generally confused by the 4-turn penalty. Is the intention an 8-token penalty for shopping before a Quest is completed? How did you come upon 4 as a traveling penalty? Why not count the map squares traveled, instead?

I count every completed Quest, within a dungeon, as a map square. That's why a 4 token penalty exists.

Heroes may pass from a Quest location only if it is played succesfully.

About the Legacy Quest you're right, i'll make it 7 squares to be more realistic with the whole timeline.

KK and RotWL have a difficulty difference but i'll let it as it is. If RotWL played first it is possible for heroes to retreat and play KK, especially after the loss of Borin's armor. Now, about the storyline, we don't know when heroes will kill Witch Lord (for 1st time on return to Barak Tor quest). On their 5th Quest or 15th? If they kill him on their last Quest (15th) then ok, Zargon may keep RotWL intro for a couple quests of KK and then deliver it to the heroes.

Deadalus, thank you so much for reading and suggesting! I'll improve the project considering many of your opinions so that one day will be able to run successfully without bugs!


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Re: A more interactive HQ

Postby Sotiris » Saturday October 4th, 2014 7:00am

I would like to start a campaign in the Play by Post section. I want to check how it will works.
Anyone's in? If yes read the first post of this topic (without the spoils) and choose your hero.


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Re: A more interactive HQ

Postby Gold Bearer » Saturday October 4th, 2014 10:03am

I'm in, that's three games I'm in now. :)

I have a few suggestions and feedback.

The barbarian is OP, it's not like giving a hero an extra attack where the target gets to defend again (which is great for killing lesser monsters but not so much for tougher ones, and lesser monsters are easy to kill anyway). I'd rule he can't use ranged weapons (but can still throw) and can't wear armour but can still use a shield and helmet. Those rules are well suited to him and make him more barbarian like anyway.

Who's paying the mercinary?

I'm not sure the rangers ability really makes sense. I think a permenant reroll would work better and give him a few daggers to start with. It could be a reroll of one dice, any amount of white shields on the first roll, one white shield, any amount of black shields on the first roll, any amount of black shields or one black shield, whichever you think is more balanced. Maybe he shouldn't be able to use the battleaxe or plate armour.

The cleric has nothing once his holy waters are gone, although he can still use ones he finds to heal himself. Holy water needs rewording if you plan on having powerful undead at any point and don't want them to die very easily. I was thinking of 'causes 2BP damage to undead' in my rules.

Does the bards song of inpiration raise attack and defence dice?

What five animals can the druid turn into? This is just fluff but there's icons for a animals so it would be a nice touch. Spider, Scorpion, Snake, Wolf, Bear maybe.

The wizards bolt hit skill isn't clear.

The armoury needs a bow.

I liked your other bracers that give the choice of attack or defence.

I think the elven bracers should add one BP and one MP to make it and the amulet of the north different.

If you take my suggestions for the ranger and bow I'll use him.
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

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