Spell Selection

[Gold Bearer]

What i'd like to know is if you're playing from the base game through to the expansions, is how you introduce the Wizards of Morcar spell decks.
Learn them from the get go, as part of the selection for the ELF/WIZARD to use or introduce some sort of college type thing where they pay to learn new schools of magic...hm....

The rules don't change when the new spell sets are introduced (at the start of WoM). The wizard picks one, the elf picks one, the wizard picks two.

The problem is that they're not at all balanced, the element spells are far superior. When we played it back in the day the darkness spells were only used for the first quest and the other two weren't used at all, that's why I did this: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=3280&p=63940&hilit=wizards+of+morcar#p63940

[Xd_Over]

hmmm, i am yet to use them but i think i'll incorporate a school of magic for the wizard so he could learn up to 6 schools of magic and have a bit more purpose.

[The Admiral]

We had a second wizard in the party once and they got used then. They actually have their uses in specific circumstances and proved quite useful, but I still wouldn't select them over elementals if given a choice.

They certainly work better if you allow the Wizard to cast the Future Sight, Invisibility and Treasure Horde spells on other Heroes.

[torilen]

Should you be seeking some more variety, perhaps looking to allow the elf and wizard(s) use of more spells as
your heroes grow in power and the quests get harder (especially if you ever start using homebrew quests found
here at the inn)...

I have a bunch of new spells found here - both hero and evil wizard spells:
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=1212


AND...several of my Questing Heroes supplements have expanded spells that can easily be converted into
HQ spells (as Questing Heroes is based on the same rules and gameplay).
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/ ... Strategies


BIG P.S. - I just reread through some of the 2nd page of comments - I suggested my stuff before, but never did post
a link. Not trying to be pushy or anything...I just really did forget that I had posted before.

[lestodante]

see...I'm a different sort of creature here - I DO think the wizard and the elf should get more spells - at some point - maybe just a couple -
especially if they have a magical item that gives them a higher Mind Score

I also think like this, especially the wizard NEED MORE SPELLS or his role is limited to a secondary character in the party.
WoM spells are not so powerful so I think they can be a good addition (one set per quest) as a new skill for the wizard without altering too much the difficult of the game.
Anyway I proposed a different way of using spells, wich features the MANA points: the wizard can take all the 4 sets of elemental but he can not use all of them because each spell will consume an amount of MANA (from 1 to 3).
So the Wizard needs a total of 17 mana points to handle a classic 3 spell sets; they limit the use of magic in general during the game but can be partially restored by potions or when healing body points.


Now he can learn and bring with him more spells so he can have a wider range to chose from (WoM spells, for example) during each quest and his role will become more strategic (do I have to use my last mana to attack once more or better to heal someone?).
In the table I did, each set of elemental spells is worth from 5 to 6 mana points:

Pass through Rock 1
Heal Body 3
Rock Skin 2
Water of Healing 3
Sleep 1
Veil of Mist 1
Courage 2
Fire of Wrath 2
Ball of Flame 2
Genie 3 (or 1 if used to reveal a room content)
Tempest 1
Swift Wind 1

A magic user can handle more spells depending by his Mind Points:
1-3 MP = no spells (still unable to understand and use magic)
4 MP = 3 spells (1 set minimum)
5 MP = 6 spells (2 sets minimum)
6 MP = 9 spells (3 sets minimum)
7 MP = 12 spells (4 sets minimum)
and so on...
and a minimum value of 6 MANA is assigned for each Mind point (starting from the 4th MP):
4 MP/6 MANA
5 MP/12 MANA
6 MP/18 MANA
7 MP/24 MANA
So MIND points indicate "how many spells he can upload inside his memory" and how many MANA he has.
MANA points indicate how many magic power he can handle during each quest.

special items and experience will allow him to acquire more spell sets or mana points.

You can also opt for an extra rule (yet to be tested): spells are no more discarded after being used; example: Ball of Flame is worth 2 mana points; so the wizard can cast 8 times in total the Ball of Flame (8x2= 16) and still have 1 mana point left to be used with a minor spell (for example Pass through Rock is woth 1 mana point).
Or if you don't want to take track of MANA to not complicate rules, you can simply allow to use a tot number of spells (IE: 6MP=9 SPELLS, even if he has more spells with him).

[torilen]

One idea I've always had - I don't know if I ever posted it here or included in Questing Heroes yet...

It basically would be a form of concentration, I suppose...with a "pain penalty" for failing. The wizard
and elf (or other casters) could cast their spells as normal. Once they are gone, they can attempt to
cast more spells. Roll 2 six-sided dice (red dice). They must roll UNDER their current Mind Points. If
they are successful, they can cast one more spell. This is done each time they desire to cast another
spell.

If they roll OVER their current Mind Points, they lose a point until the next quest...a temporary loss
that acts as a loss in concentration, as it would affect any future spells for that particular quest.

One could use combat dice, and have a certain number of shields or skulls for each spell, but that
gets quite complicated.

[wallydubbs]

Originally when there were only 4 elemental spells I liked playing that the Elf and Wizard keep the same spells. It seemed thematic that the Elf would only know Air or Water spells; but after printing out and applying the expansion spells from WoM and MotM I found that having a variety of spells changed method of gameplay a bit, the heroes plan wasn't always the same anymore. It was a bit refreshing seeing the Wizard block off a hallway with Wall of Stone.

[Kurgan]

Usually it ends up exactly the same every time... at character creation, the Elf picks earth, Wizard gets everything else, and they keep that for the whole evening. I give them the option (the NA rules at least say you can do this, except in the multi-part quests) to change their spells but they never do.

Once the Elf picked Fire (no healing, that makes it a lot harder), though...

[Bareheaded Warrior]

This is yet another example of where I have always played things a certain way, but then having seen stuff on the forum I then question my interpretation!

I have always played that spell selection is done as part of character creation and you then stick with it, if both the Wizard and the Elf were killed in the same quest and were replaced then I would allow them to do spell selection again as they are new Heroes but otherwise, choose and stick but now I'm not sure.

Suggestion: If this is the players’ first Quest, the Wizard should take the Fire spells, the Elf should take the Earth spells, and the remaining spells
should go to the Wizard.

The above rule in the US version, specifically the "if" part suggests to me that spell selection can occur when it isn't the player's first quest, so perhaps the idea is that they should be doing this on every quest, or does this just mean that if you create new Heroes you would be doing it again and it wouldn't be the Hero's first quest?

All spells are then returned to the Wizard and the Elf.

I infer from this rule that the same spells are returned to them, but it isn't exactly 100% clear.

I think I'll stick with my original interpretation but I feel shaky ground!

[Kurgan]

Just as I would allow heroes to buy/sell/trade gear at the Armory and buy from the Alchemist Shop between quests, so too I'd let them change their turn order and re-choose their spells if desired. Whether explicitly allowed in the original rules or not, that's how we've played it (but again, the spell choice thing is usually forgotten).

My own homebrew upgrade system has tended towards giving the Elf more magic, while making the Wizard's magic merely stronger (and making him better at his unique artifacts), others may decide their own solutions if they feel it isn't working out vanilla.