How does the Ice Gremlin work?

[Jalapenotrellis]

Is it an action to steal one item, or is it an action to steal one item AND move full movement? What if he has already moved some to get up to the player--does that subtract from his movement? Does the Move-Action or Action-Move rule break with Ice Gremlins?

I'm thinking it is an action, and he stops attacking and just runs after doing the steal action, but he still has to follow the action-move or move-action rule. Otherwise, you get a situation where he can move up 10 spaces, steal and item, and move back 10 spaces in 1 turn. That seems too powerful. They need a chance to get him. Also assume he cannot open doors or anything--so when it is the end of the quest in first solo quest, he can't just run out the exit door. He would be cornered there. This is pretty unclear, and normally I don't have issue with making rulings and considering what I want it to be like, but also curious how others have ruled it?

"During Zargon's turn, each Ice Gremlin can either attack a Hero or Mercenary, or it can steal one item from one Hero (Zargon's choice). The item stolen cannot be the armor or shield a Hero is using, nor the weapon he is wielding. As soon as an Ice Gremlin has stolen an item, it runs away at full speed. The Heroes can chase the Ice Gremlin on their turn. If they catch it and destroy it, they regain the stolen item. If no Hero can see the Ice Gremlin at the start of Zargon's turn, the Ice Gremlin has escaped with the item. The item should be crossed off the Hero's Character Sheet. Remove the Ice Gremlin figure from the gameboard."

My group just started this quest pack tonight. We have played the others chronologically. The main change we have made other than this is to give an extra hp point to the Halberdier to differentiate him from the swordsman (hp tank-bruiser), and give him an extra movement point an extra defend die and allow 40g rehire cost for all Mercs as a hybrid rule from the UK expansions with the BQP body points.

[Kurgan]

I treat it as the Gremlin, after stealing an item, gets his full movement to run away (even if he has in theory used his full movement to get up to the hero to steal as his action). It's a special skill! If stuff gets stolen, I keep track of it on a list and the next time they find a "ice gremlin treasure horde room" the items will be found there (even if it is several quests in the future). Remember they can't steal the armor the hero is wearing (I would include cloak or bracers as this body "armor"), the shield out of his hand or the weapon he is wielding. But they can steal literally anything else... a potion, an artifact, scroll, a spare weapon, the helmet off his head! Yes, they could even steal a bag of gold (perhaps roll a die and multiple the number by 10, or even more if they have a lot of it, though I would say 5,000 gold coins should show him down to half speed, lol).

Yes, I've even gone a little past the rules with this one and had an Ice Gremlin steal a crossbow from a mercenary (he happened to be wielding the broadsword at the time) and then used it on him (and killed him). Normally the rules don't allow that, but it was so evil.... as Zargon I had to try it!

I prefer the half price rehired discount for mercs that survive one quest to the next, but Avalon Hill's suggestion that the "Warhorn of Command" gives the discount is also a nice suggestion (you can place that treasure wherever you want to). I understand in WOM it was only 10g to rehire a merc AND you could get the potion of charm, but the mercs were a lot weaker there than in BQP.

[LucaRocks]

Love it that I can come here and always find an answer to a question I had!

I think Kurgan is right and the "steal and run" is like one action. Move up to the guy, steal and then run away for 10 squares. Pretty cool mechanic!

[wallydubbs]

This quest pack is already unfairly hard, I treat stealing an item as an action and I won't let the Gremlin split his movement.
I see that it's not written like that, but we're talking about a quest pack that was never properly playtested or thought through. I'm playing it my way.

[Daedalus]

Yes, a bit more explicit rule would help here, but since that is lacking, everybody is free to interpret this as best they can. I'm also for maintaining the basic rule for monster movement over allowing extra movement--Ice Gremlins already have the fastest monster movement score. I haven't played the BQP, but if I do, I will treat the steal action like the similar Hero action, Search For Treasure. That means the Ice Gremlin can steal from a distance if in the same room (or corridor), without needing to actually move adjacent to the Hero. (The steal item rule doesn't make adjacency a requirement.) The Ice Gremlin will then have it's full movement available to run away with the Hero's item, per the standard movement rule governing monsters. If the Ice Gremlin is first moved, I'd instead have it attack that turn.

In the case of the Ice Gremlin located before the exit in the first solo Quest (from the OP), the best option is to have it attack; it is hopelessly cornered, so stealing an item is a waste of an action.

[Kurgan]

The App introduces move-attack-move "advanced" goblins (but doesn't give extra movement). Jungles of Delthrak has a similar ability for the Raptors.

The "steal" substitutes for an attack in the rules as written for FH.

[Malcadon]

Yeah, the rules are not always fully clear on things. I have always treated the theft as an action onto itself, with no attack or movement as part of the action. And the part about retreat is something it must do if it is able to move, even if it has to wait to do so on a later turn.

For example, on the first turn (after all the Heroes acted), an Ice Gremlin moves up to the Elf and then steals a potion of dexterity (after random determination). As the Ice Gremlin already moved and acted, he remains were it is. On the second turn, the other Heroes are too busy with a Yeti, leaving the Elf to deal with the Ice Gremlin. The Elf attacks the Ice Gremlin scoring 1 hit; not enough to kill him. As she is low on health, the Elf choose to move where is it safer. Once the Heroes are all done with their turn, the Ice Gremlin acts. As the Elf moved away (and no one else is adjacent), he cant attack the Elf nor steal anything else of hers, so (as stated the rules) the Ice Gremlin runs out of the room at full speed, leaving the view of the Heroes, disappearing into the darkness (remove from board). Had the Elf choose to move in front of the only open door in the room, she would have blocked the Ice Gremlin from escaping, but that means he would attack her in order to escape and she felt that the potion was just not worth it.

I hope that helped?

[The Admiral]

I allowed split movement combined with the steal like a Raptor

[Parzival]

I just ran into this ability myself.
Honestly, the text is unclear— is the “Zargon’s choice” both to steal or attack AND to choose which item is stolen? Or does the player decide which item in the Hero’s possession the Gremlin gets to steal?

The App seems to leave the choice of item up to the player— it makes no request as to type of item or anything which would restrict this, nor provide any mechanism for a random choice. Otherwise, I would have thought from the Quest Book text that Zargon chooses the item as well. It’s a lot less regrettable if you can hand the Gremlin something of little value or utility. As my first experience was with the App’s process, I’m going with that as the intended meaning; the player chooses an item to lose.

And does a treasure (like a bag of gold) count as an “item?” I assume since a potion, magical weapon, or similar could presumably be stolen, then any “treasure” can be stolen. So you could make the Gremlin take a small bag of gold and write it off as self-preservation.