Game System versions photo comparison

[Cael Darkhollow]

The new Handaxe card doesn't restrict the Wizard, which I can only assume is an oversight.

Or is it? Other items new to the NA rules are not restricted to the Wizard that add a buff. There also are the Bracers (+1 DD), the Crown of Shadows (+1DD), and the Phantom Blade (no defense.) The 2 AD Hand ax might be part of a larger effort to power up the Wizard's combat ability and have something to spend gold coins on. Would that be a bad thing?

Hi, of course you could be right and maybe that was the Hasbro intention but I think it is difficult to accept seeing a Wizard allowed to use a 2 AD axe and at the same time not allowed to use a 2 AD sword... for my perception such rule sucks a little bit and goes so far from the typical image most of us has about what a fantasy Wizard uses to be, that's the reason I think this rule is more close to an errata that a whish from designers. Weapons like Phantom Blade may be more naturally acceptable for a Wizard since they are magical, but the handaxe is not. Anyway discussion is quite open, I hope an official FAQs from Hasbro could clarify it some day.

Gandalf used a sword in Tolkien, I'm not sure why D&D put class restrictions on armor and weapons typically used by fighters...oh wait YES I AM, because then everyone would be a sword wielding magic user badass rather than just a plain old fighter. Only elves and multiclass/duel-class characters were allowed such options originally but had restrictions elsewhere. Impossible to translate the fantasy genre into a playable game without setting limitations and power checks via rules such as class restrictions. Character classes are a necessary component of systematic rules generation for any type of fantasy game.

Let's face it, HeroQuest in all of it's forms is unambiguously D&D simplified; so is the Gauntlet video game, so are the Zelda videogames, same with just about every other video game regardless of genre (that has health, equipment, experience points or bonuses, leveling up, treasure/wealth accumulation, magic items, etc.) and all of the fantasy board games out there. It's all D&D and the rules originally devised to make imagination a playable game, and this is an artifact of Gary Gygax trying to make wizards have some limitations in power by restricting types of weapons and armor when in reality (if fantasy were real mind you) anyone could learn a few thieving tricks, a few magic spells, a few sword techniques, and perhaps be a clergy at their local church and bless stuff and banish undead too in the course of their careers.

Class restrictions attempt (and mostly work) to translate fantasy into a playable game but aren't very realistic. Wizards are the most powerful archetype of fantasy game character or class but have to take the long dangerous road to get there, if they were well protected by armor and could use weapons effectively as a fighter than all would choose to be wizards instead of fighters and the class system falls apart.
Think of it this way, fighters spend all of their time practicing techniques to improve their skills and become muscular and accustomed to wearing armor, while magic users spend all of their time practicing spells and reading books so lack the frame for armor and the skills to be effective in combat. Librarians vs. professional athletes or martial artists skilled in combat. I've also heard arcane forces are interfered with by base metals and disrupt spell casting as an in-game excuse why wizards cannot generally use mundane metal weapons and armor, but could use certain magic weapons and magic armor.

I think HispaZargon is correct that the omissions found are errata worthy mistakes because HQ uses class systems, so those restrictions need to stay in place; staff or dagger (or perhaps magic weapon) only and restrict non magical armor for the wizard class.

[Kurgan]

I'm sure this was a glitch since the Hand Axe was off limits to the Wizard in the EU version where it was first introduced, and they were clearly trying to port some old favorites from the original edition into the new remake. Oddly enough the Wizard armor I don't think was part of the 1989 edition (but were added in the EU second edition most people remember).

Odder still, the (EU based) PC game (at least the DOS version) of 1991 placed no gear restrictions whatsoever on the Wizard. So yes, he could arm himself with plate, a helmet, shield, battle axe, crossbow and all the Quest Treasures (Artifacts) from the EU edition. In this version he still had a base attack of only 1 (weirdly, when the heroes are all unarmed, the PC game retained everyone's base attack, so the Barbarian had 3 attack still while supposedly weaponless).

There were no Bracers or Cloak of Protection, so it made sense to let him use chainmail and a helmet, but the rest was just goofy. So you'd end up with a fighter who just had low body points and happened to be able to use spells. He was restricted in using a battle axe or staff at same time as a shield (just toggle before you attack, then toggle back afterward while on your turn). The staff limitation was easily bypassed by using the Spear as a melee weapon (making it equivalent to the Wizard's staff, since that wasn't part of the EU equipment list).

Granted in the PC game Morcar was fully automated, and it was either single player or a hot-seat type game (you couldn't share gold and it was only possible to attack each other with attack spells). But the official videos games could be considered the "odd duck" of the HQ world and maybe not the best guide as to having a physical game with real players who can get cranky when they don't like something and intend to influence the GM to change it. I don't know if there were any cheat codes for the electronic version, but it was much, much easier due to this and other oversights.

So you could re-write the rules system and create your own game in the process or...

If playing the Wizard is so hated at your game table... maybe just to raise his Body Point maximum to 5. A small fix but could lessen complaints without having to change anything else. And in fact, this is what you can do from completing the Dark Company (earning the Ring of Brilliance), by "leveling up" (500 gold for a chance between quests) in the Japanese version, or by earning the Ring of Fortitude in the Prophecy of Telor quest pack (2021).

But with the Wizard's Cloak + Bracers, you'll end up with 4 Defend dice, the Wizard's Staff will grant you 2 attack (plus the ability to strike diagonally but now twice as powerful as the regular staff), and that's not too shabby, even if you don't take advantage of the Hand Axe glitch.

[HispaZargon]

In my opinion, Wizard weakness is one of the best thing about HeroQuest... so it may be preserved.

@Kurgan: I think you know it but be care about Ring of Brilliance since its rules were never officially defined in any language of Dark Company questpack. In my homebrew rules I always considered that such ring provides +1 basic Mind Point to its bearer. Fortunately, the 2021 remake's Ring of Fortitude has given me a strong reason to continue thinking that my rule for Ring of Brilliance has been always a proportional and 'realistic' interpretation since it fits really well with its name, with the rest of artifacts rules and with the Heroes needs. Now I can consider it as a complementary ring for Ring of Fortitude, which gives +1 Body Point to its bearer and it is also rewarded one for each Hero at the end of a questpack, exactly as Brilliance one.

[Kurgan]

Good point. I was about to contradict the point about the Mind Points leading to death in KK, then I realized that was Phoenix's editorial "fix" rather than how it originally played out (character dies unless Elixir of Life is used). Better to check the actual documents!

But point taken, some of these things are great minds thinking alike or fan made ideas becoming "official."

[Cael Darkhollow]

I'd say editing in the game screens after the gameboards would make this topic even more awesome.

. . . I see Mentor has the familiar "Mentor eye" symbol on his copy of Loretome.. . .

Inspect Mentor's figure Check out Mentor's Hero Card and you can see he also wears a matching medallion. I'd call the symbol the an Eye of Lore. That would make the pumpkin skull Zargon's a Dread Mask.

Mentor (not Zargon or Morcar mind you) on the game screen in all his glory has been added for all versions.
Mischief managed.

[Kurgan]

To me, he will always be Zargon. But officially in this version, yes.

[Kurgan]

Is there a comparison pic in there of the Classic vs. remake GS tiles? I may have missed it...

[Sonic Whammy]

Yeah, I would have to agree that the handaxe shouldn't be accessible to the Wizard because it goes against the notion of what is seen to use in RPGs. Depending on the game, you see them with daggers, wands, whips, staves, maybe a straight bow, but axes and swords never show up on that list.

And while we're here on the weapons, which of the new equipment cards are in the regular game systems, and which are in the new expansions?

Love seeing all these.

[Kurgan]

One way you could compromise would be to use the hand axe as a "throwing hatchet" (tomahawk as the art suggests) only. An expensive throwing weapon, but one that can nevertheless be a boon to the wizard one time. Just a thought.

[lestodante]

Well, for some reason I missed this post till now. This is a huge comparison work.
The new furnitures are better than the classic ones for me, theya re a big plus in the new version and the new solid doors are also a great addition. The tomb is much better on the base and can be opened, this is unuseful in the game but homerules have a chance to be developed. Anyway I prefer the knight reporesented on the old version than this new knight.
For the spell cards, I get confused everytime I see the Air, Water and Dread spells as their artworks are very similar.
Again for the cards I noticed a different style for some of them; some are extremely realistic, others are cartoonized. This is a minus for me. If you look at the Tool Kit or the pahantom blade, they have lot of shadows and contrasts. They are the only two cards with this style. now check the Helmet and the bracers (as they are close in the posted picture): the helmet has a heavy trait, featuring good contrasts. that is a well balanced image for me. The bracers instead have a tiny trait, almost no contrasts and the card looks poor and mainly white.
Other cards like the Lightning Bolt or the Rust spells feature an artwork that is hard to be understood, unlessyou already know the original card or read the text. I did a try with a couple of friends that are unfamiar with the game; I covered the text and asked them what the could see in the images. they were confused. Then I showed the classic cards and they realized what the images where representing. They should take more care with this.
The Warlock cards are the ugliest for me. The Demonform is really confused, while usually the images help you to understand the text better or to recognize them faster. Also the Warlock's wand is not even a pure black and white, two colors image. It has more colors so this completely breaks all HeroQuest standards for the cards.