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Chaos spell: Command

PostPosted: Sunday August 18th, 2019 11:57pm
by Jalapenotrellis
I played Quest 12 for the first time today. Unfortunately command did not land at all. The dwarf I cast it on immediately broke the spell.

However, if I land the spell, I have been looking around the forum here and see that there is a similar thread in the rule section but not in the official rule section. Is the official rule for this that the Hero is under control by Zargon and can you use all his potions and him block heroes from entering a doorway? What about traps? Can I search for treasure and trigger traps on purpose? What about opening doors? Can I surround the hero with monsters and have the monsters attack my commanded hero?

Has anyone ever had the spell land on The Wizard? I would think it would be a waste of the cast from a probability standpoint, considering the dwarf got out of it before I could even use it.

I feel there are so many questions with this spell.

Re: Chaos spell: Command

PostPosted: Monday August 19th, 2019 3:28pm
by wallydubbs
Such scenarios aren't answered by the instruction booklet, so inevitably it comes down to the Evil Wizard to answer. However I do believe a certain rational is required to confront these questions before answering.

I would say, yes Zargon may force the hero to drink his own potions (or smash them against the ground if he chooses). The concept of heroes passing through eachother relies on allowance. So Zargon may use that hero to black the door, since Zargon is controlling the hero, he doesn't have to give consent to let the hero pass. This is why Veil of Mist has the effect it does, monsters aren't going to kindly let you pass them.
I suppose you can search for traps, I don't see why you would when you already know where they are. But yes, by all means, walk that hero into a trap, intentionally trigger it and make him take the damage. That hero is under mind control and will do what you tell him at risk to himself. Make him drop all has equipment, walk into a group of monsters naked and let them attack him without defense.
Sure, have him disarm a trap if you feel like being contrary.
All that being said, however, I draw the line on spells. Despite being allowed to do every other action while under command, I personally feel the hero needs to be in the right mental state to cast a spell. Of course, there is no game rule to this (unless you strictly follow what the spell card says, that Zargon may use the hero as a monster, and attack other heroes. Since it specifies attack, this would negate all other action options, he wouldn't even be able to open doors, since monsters can't), but I'd house rule with that logic and allow all physical control over the hero.

Re: Chaos spell: Command

PostPosted: Saturday October 19th, 2019 1:50pm
by lordneg
What about if you did control the wizard, or elf, you could use him to cast a chaos spell that the monster may have? If you would not let them cast their own spells. they can still be used as a conduit for the winds of magic since they are attuned to magic.

Re: Chaos spell: Command

PostPosted: Saturday October 19th, 2019 2:25pm
by lestodante
Ahhh good idea and... evil!

Re: Chaos spell: Command

PostPosted: Saturday October 19th, 2019 2:31pm
by wallydubbs
lordneg wrote:What about if you did control the wizard, or elf, you could use him to cast a chaos spell that the monster may have? If you would not let them cast their own spells. they can still be used as a conduit for the winds of magic since they are attuned to magic.


For me, once again, I wouldn't allow any spells (chaos or otherwise) to be cast by the hero under command, I think it would take a degree of mental stability to cast any spells. Zargon would only be physically controlling the character; spells go beyond a physical action... but that's just me.

Re: Chaos spell: Command

PostPosted: Saturday October 19th, 2019 3:38pm
by Pancho
wallydubbs wrote:
lordneg wrote:What about if you did control the wizard, or elf, you could use him to cast a chaos spell that the monster may have? If you would not let them cast their own spells. they can still be used as a conduit for the winds of magic since they are attuned to magic.


For me, once again, I wouldn't allow any spells (chaos or otherwise) to be cast by the hero under command, I think it would take a degree of mental stability to cast any spells. Zargon would only be physically controlling the character; spells go beyond a physical action... but that's just me.

I like your reasoning here. I think it’s a good rule of thumb to not allow a mind controlled Character to be forced to cast a spell, and I’ll adopt it from now on.

Re: Chaos spell: Command

PostPosted: Saturday October 19th, 2019 3:42pm
by Jalapenotrellis
On quest 14 it didn't land either (the dwarf seems spell resistant), and I've ruled that it is just as the card says: move and attack. It doesn't say move and an action.

Re: Chaos spell: Command

PostPosted: Sunday October 20th, 2019 3:43pm
by lestodante
wallydubbs wrote:For me, once again, I wouldn't allow any spells (chaos or otherwise) to be cast by the hero under command, I think it would take a degree of mental stability to cast any spells. Zargon would only be physically controlling the character; spells go beyond a physical action... but that's just me.


Yeah.. this is also correct! Maybe better this interpretation.

Re: Chaos spell: Command

PostPosted: Sunday October 20th, 2019 4:07pm
by mitchiemasha
Pretty clear on the card to the rules. "can move the hero as a monster and attack other Heroes" That's no search, trigger traps or open doors. Due to wording, It could be argued that an attack spell is an attack, it could also be argued that the Hero moved himself as normal in his own turn but monsters don't search, trigger traps or open doors.

Re: Chaos spell: Command

PostPosted: Sunday October 20th, 2019 6:10pm
by Jalapenotrellis
mitchiemasha wrote:Pretty clear on the card to the rules. "can move the hero as a monster and attack other Heroes" That's no search, trigger traps or open doors. Due to wording, It could be argued that an attack spell is an attack, it could also be argued that the Hero moved himself as normal in his own turn but monsters don't search, trigger traps or open doors.

I like this too. Seems pretty clear when you put it that way that they are "as a monster." However, that could also mean we can attack with their equipment, and we can position them in a negative way for more damage later. Both are very strong.
It also is another take control away from the character spell, similar to tempest, sleep, fear, all good because of that aspect.