Search for Treasure Question

[Jalapenotrellis]

I play NA original game and pretty much try to stick to the rules without doing house rules. My question:

If a room is searched for the first time and the quest book has a special note that there is nothing special in that room (say there's an empty weapon rack, and the note says it is an empty weapon rack, unfortunately, or an empty chest), does the hero draw a treasure card? Or, is it considered a special treasure of 'no treasure' the first time they search with nothing remarkable specifically noted about that room? Obviously, a treasure card is drawn when there is no note or the second time someone searches, but I am unclear about the first time if there is a special note about nothing special being there (like quest 1, the room with the 3 chaos warriors, the empty chest there--do they draw a card on the first search, or is it just 'no treasure, sorry--end turn')?

[Maurice76]

As EW, I would rule that the player gets to draw a Treasure Card, while also noting that the Weapon's Rack doesn't contain anything special, or the Chest is empty. The problem is that the rules don't state anything about the Heroes specifically examining a piece of furniture, while searching for treasure or searching for traps. Searches are simply in general. Looking at it another way: if a Hero does find something particular in a Chest (i.e. a stash of Gold Coins) or any other piece of furniture, the Hero will spend more time to collect it and not be able to search the rest of the area while doing so. If there's nothing of interest - opening the lid of a Chest will immediately reveal it's empty - the Hero in question does have time to expand his search area within the same Search action.

[mitchiemasha]

Ahhh... Good spot. We've always picked a card.

[j_dean80]

As a NA rules follower, I've always taken it as they do not draw a treasure card. I even go further that NO Hero draws a card in that room as it specifically says that room contains nothing. How would the first Hero find nothing but the second finds stuff? That doesn't seem fair.

[mitchiemasha]

How would the first Hero find nothing but the second finds stuff?

Good question... I'm curious for others views here.

That doesn't seem fair.

You could have it so the first draws a card.

as it specifically says that room contains nothing.

Perhaps this means nothing... special, unique to the quest, draw a card.

[lestodante]

How would the first Hero find nothing but the second finds stuff? That doesn't seem fair.

Not all people has the same searching skills. Anyway I use EUR version rules so they are only allowed 1 single search for each room.
It is the same when you ask your wife or mum: "where are my socks?" and she answer from another room "in the first drawer" but you can't find them anyway, then she arrives, open the drawer and says: "here they are!".

[mitchiemasha]

It is the same when you ask your wife or mum: "where are my socks?" and she answer from another room "in the first drawer" but you can't find them anyway, then she arrives, open the drawer and says: "here they are!".

Nice one... And there we have it! it's an actual thing! what more proof do we need!!!

[Daedalus]

I play NA original game and pretty much try to stick to the rules without doing house rules. My question:

If a room is searched for the first time and the quest book has a special note that there is nothing special in that room (say there's an empty weapon rack, and the note says it is an empty weapon rack, unfortunately, or an empty chest), does the hero draw a treasure card? Or, is it considered a special treasure of 'no treasure' the first time they search with nothing remarkable specifically noted about that room? Obviously, a treasure card is drawn when there is no note or the second time someone searches, but I am unclear about the first time if there is a special note about nothing special being there (like quest 1, the room with the 3 chaos warriors, the empty chest there--do they draw a card on the first search, or is it just 'no treasure, sorry--end turn')?

I'd say it is a special treasure of 'no treasure.' My answer can be found at the end of my post in the Incorrectly Played Rules topic. However, I have come to a different conclusion about other Heroes searching for treasure in the same room:

I believe my old group has handled NA treasure searches wrong. We used to allow the other three Heroes to take Treasure Cards after the first Hero had discovered special treasure from the Quest Notes. "A room may be searched by all four Heroes..." and "The special treasure is discovered only once by the first Hero who searches the room for treasure, even if other Heroes later search that same room"; both of those statements led us to believe the point of later treasure searches by other Heroes was to take Treasure Cards. We didn't consider that the text of the last sentence was instead only to exclude the possibility of a special treasure from being repeatedly awarded.

After thinking through the logic of why only single searches are allowed in the EU rules (see another thread), I've at last come to identify the same limitation in the NA rules where a room contains special treasure: only one treasure search is allowed. "If there is no special treasure called out to Zargon in the Quest Book, you, as a Hero, must draw a random card from the Treasure Card deck . . .." Conversely, if there is special treasure called out, Heroes may NOT draw a Treasure Card. After the first search finds the special treasure, no other searches are possible.

I'd even go so far as to say an empty chest or weapons rack with useless weapons could count as special treasure from the notes--it has a description, even if not positive. That means no treasure for the room!

[Kurgan]

That's an interesting point. Because you have Empty chests for example, which means the first person finds nothing (the "special treasure" in that case is "empty"), the next 3 get cards (and if you use EU cards, one of them could be "nothing").

I've been doing it (under my NA based rules) as "special treasure for the first person" and then cards for the rest. Nothing listed, then cards for all.

Some quests do indicate that no treasure can be searched for or "there is no other treasure [except this quest treasure] in the room" implying that they do allow further searches after the initial one (or intended to) under normal circumstances...

A special treasure room having only one search, vs. "normal" rooms giving up to four searches, would certainly change things!

But my take on it has been that the special treasure is just the first search, period, even if that special treasure is "nothing." If someone draws a nothing card, we wouldn't say that there's no more treasure in the room, just that this person found nothing of note. I would AGREE That a "nothing special treasure" counts as one search and that Hero doesn't get to search again to get a card for the same room.

One might also ask why is it that you can search a room for traps, find no traps, and then someone could search for treasure and draw a hazard card (they were actually called "traps" in the EU edition, so at least in the NA you can say it's simply something that can't be searched for, you can only bypass it by for example having the Treasure Without Doom spell scroll).

[Daedalus]

With the NA rule that four treasure searches per room are allowed, I of course understand your reasoning. After all, that is how our group played it, so I know works and suspect most everybody plays it that way.

Seeing a special treasure as prohibiting other treasure searches requires a certain perspective (EU influenced) for justification. I prefer the converse logic because it limits abundant NA treasure searches a bit and restores some balance. A bias is at work, but I find this nuanced approach/stretch satisfies my appreciation of the possible intent of the game.