Monsters and sprung pit traps

[Maurice76]

My youngest brother has a copy of all expansions ever released for the game, including those. I guess another option would be to ask him if I could borrow whatever we'd need, when we get around to it. Might even be easier .

[Jafazo]

Like I said, you might live near a library that has a 3D printer. A library in my area charges $2 per hour, an average Hero Quest figurine take about 45 minutes.
If you're willing to accept low quality for what otherwise cannot be found, I think it makes a somewhat acceptable substitute.
https://springer3dscans.wordpress.com/2 ... en-horror/
https://springer3dscans.wordpress.com/2 ... he-mirror/

I didn't know libraries might carry 3D printers for use. Time to start calling & inquiring! Thanks for this big piece of advice.

Also, I haven't commented on this subject so I'll do so here. With consideration to preserving HQ as much as possible I believe adding a mechanism where monsters suffer from traps is a terrible implementation. The game's already designed to give the good guys an overall advantage & this change would seriously unbalance the scales to where monsters would just be at a pathetically unfair disadvantage. I can't speak on behalf of any unmodified HQ without knowing all its rules but adding this change to a fresh version of HQ, hell no.

Furthermore the game only focuses their created traps (pit traps), but I feel their idea stands so if you create custom traps that remain on the board, monsters should be immune to those as well. If you're having a hard time applying some logical reason for it, instead of coming up with a logical change, implement a logical excuse about why monsters don't suffer from their own traps. It's a world of magic, get creative.

If you insist on preserving this bad mechanic I say reduce the penalty from death to an imposed disadvantage. Something like, "Monsters must roll to jump traps and if they fall into one their turn is immediately over. Monsters inside a pit trap fight at a disadvantage." That's all, no health lost.

[Maurice76]

Also, I haven't commented on this subject so I'll do so here. With consideration to preserving HQ as much as possible I believe adding a mechanism where monsters suffer from traps is a terrible implementation. The game's already designed to give the good guys an overall advantage & this change would seriously unbalance the scales to where monsters would just be at a pathetically unfair disadvantage. I can't speak on behalf of any unmodified HQ without knowing all its rules but adding this change to a fresh version of HQ, hell no.

Furthermore the game only focuses their created traps (pit traps), but I feel their idea stands so if you create custom traps that remain on the board, monsters should be immune to those as well. If you're having a hard time applying some logical reason for it, instead of coming up with a logical change, implement a logical excuse about why monsters don't suffer from their own traps. It's a world of magic, get creative.

If you insist on preserving this bad mechanic I say reduce the penalty from death to an imposed disadvantage. Something like, "Monsters must roll to jump traps and if they fall into one their turn is immediately over. Monsters inside a pit trap fight at a disadvantage." That's all, no health lost.

Then the same should be applied to Heroes. No loss of body points, just turn is over and fight at a disadvantage. Anyway, as it stands, monsters would only suffer from exposed traps and unless they're triggered mid-fight by the Heroes, they're all obscured until found through searching. I think the times where the Heroes might force a monster to traverse an exposed trap are small to begin with, so overall impact on the game is minimal.

[mitchiemasha]

Also, I haven't commented on this subject so I'll do so here.

I'd have to agree with Maurice76 here

I think the times where the Heroes might force a monster to traverse an exposed trap are small to begin with, so overall impact on the game is minimal.

Especially US where only sprung pits are placed on the board. Many Traps won't even be placed as a player will simply avoid the warned about square. Monsters can freely walk over this, the trap isn't place, unlike the UK version.

Plus... risking jumping a pit to try and get away, to make a monster attempt the same risk, can have comical consequences. Those rare moments, when they occur and choices like this are what make games a bit more exciting. It's the thrill of the uncertainty and the surprise of success or failure. Do you risk the jump? If you survive it, will the enemy risk it? If you fall in you're at even more disadvantage but you've got no choice... you're too beaten, you're doomed to die. If the monster jumps freely, it's a no brainner, don't take the risk, it'll follow you anyway.

Our rules are simple. Once something is on the board it effects all. Unless it's specifically specified in the quest notes not to.

[SirRick]

Even if the monsters are not supposed to get hurt from traps, the NA rulebook states that monsters on a pit trap square still suffer a penalty to attacks and defense while there. So even if you play by the book, monsters are still affected by pit traps at least.

Also there is a simple explanation as to why monsters never set off traps or can always jump them. Its because when the heroes are not raiding their home, the monsters have nothing to do all day except practicing jumping over their own traps.

[Jafazo]

Then the same should be applied to Heroes. No loss of body points, just turn is over and fight at a disadvantage.

The penalties heroes and monsters suffer from sprung pit traps are balanced even if each side doesn't suffer from the same number of penalties. Falling into a Pit Trap has three penalties right now. 1, you lose a body point of damage. 2, your turn ends immediately. 3, you roll one less combat die from within a pit trap to attack or defend.

Right now monsters only suffer from penalty 3, heroes suffer from 1, 2 and 3. This is balanced because both sides aren't made to face the same challenges. Monsters are simply, another challenge. I'm sure "How would Traps realistically work?" wasn't a factor when this mechanic was designed. Heroes deal with more than just monsters and they're compensated for that with more body points. If an EW rules that monsters need to deal with damage from traps, I'd say they should be compensated for this with extra body points or in some other way. Simply saying, "Let's make monsters start taking damage from traps because it's realistic." isn't a finished solution with regard to balance.

And so, my suggestion was that if an EW wants to impose more penalties on monsters from pit traps it might be simpler to introduce penalty 2 but stay away from penalty 1.

As for this mod not ruining a game, in my opinion it can, but it depends on the players and how they respond to the change. I don't penalize my players for creative thinking so if they use an sprung trap to their advantage I won't retaliate. It wouldn't happen every turn but I can think of plenty of scenarios where use of a sprung pit trap could help the heroes win a few challenging battles, mainly in the halls where movement is limited, not in rooms.

Also, I deliberately spring pit traps all the time. The game doesn't pose much of a challenge so I end up with a plethora of extra healing potions and such and can handle the damage. When I see a pit trap I sometimes bypass it until the quest is over unless it is in my way and I'm forced to deal with it. A sprung pit trap is an extra room I can bring into the game later that I can search for treasure (it's in the rules). Depending on the decks size when a quest is over, the more rooms you can search for treasure the better. Because of this habit, monsters do have to run over sprung pit traps once in a while in my games. If I forced them to risk damage, the game would only be that much easier for me as a hero.

[mitchiemasha]

As for this mod...

Here we go again, it's not a MOD, it's the difference between UK and US edition rules.

UK monsters have to attempt to jump the pit in the same manor as the heroes.
US monsters can jump the pit freely but suffer the combat penalty if in the pit

I'm not sure about the bit in italics, some one needs to check. Neither versions are game breaking. Both versions of the game play perfectly fine. As do many, I prefer to use a combination of the trap rules.

US. When A hero searches for trap point to the Hazardous square and voice a warning (not UK: place the trap).
US. Sprung Pit traps can't be removed.
UK. Disable Traps skill. Remove a trap you find... Find, as in, whilst doing a search action that would UK: reveal the trap / US: voice a warning.
UK. Tool Kit. Remove a trap you find... as above but roll 1 Cd6 to see if you lose a Body point in doing so.
UK. Falling rocks are cave ins designed to block the way. They fall infront or behind depending on the quest map.
They were never intended as trap to hurt the triggering hero, especially at 3CD6, this was for rare instance someone or something is stud next to you.
There are other falling rocks that fall directly on the square and are only 1CD6, these don't block the way, they don't leave a marker.
UK. Once a trap is revealed it effects all in the same manor, unless specifically stated in the notes.

Extra items... 2 mechanics I introduced into the game via different quest, discovering the item.
If the Hero has a MAP, the trap would be placed face down on the square as a reminder.
If the Hero Has some ROPE, they can climb down into the pit at no risk but can only move the value of 1d6 in that turn.

I do like my dungeons to be more HAZARDOUS, so double 1's is an auto hazard "rocks fall from above", "as you attempt to escape the floor greets your face", what ever you feel fits. It works towards reducing Heroes wasting turns. Also satisfy the logic of only moving up to 2 spaces. We do have TORCH: Can reroll 1 move d6, which the scout model carries by default. This symbolises the area being well lit. If you roll the same number... the torch dies... and back to darkness you return. We've had some comical badly beaten heroes crying with each roll approaching the exit. If you don't like that as a Generic MOD, it's a perfect idea for a unique quest, 80's movie style... where everything always gets blown up towards the end. Or simply a very rough dungeon, older than the hills it's under.

[wallydubbs]

So what do you do when a monster is standing on an unsprung trap, but then a hero passes through them via Vail of Mist?

[The Admiral]

So what do you do when a monster is standing on an unsprung trap, but then a hero passes through them via Vail of Mist?

Trigger the trap.

Pit = Both fall in and lose a BP. They can both coexist down the pit and even fight each other.
Falling Block = Both roll for damage survivors must choose a space to move to. Each must choose a different space and the Hero gets first choice.
Spear = Roll randomly to select who is targeted and then they roll for damage as normal. The Hero is only brought to a stop if he is the target and is hit. In that case move the Hero to an adjacent vacant space and end their move.

The thing with Veil of mist is that the Hero is unseen. They are still there, and effected by the physical parameters of their environment. A trip wire doesn't need to see a hidden Hero to affect him. A spear flying out of the ceiling can't see anything. It just follows a trajectory and impacts what it hits.

[Thor-in]

This is interesting to see how everyone plays it.

Personally, I play the NA rules. However after reading this I'm thinking of changing it to a mix between UK and NA rules.