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Can Monsters open doors if...?

Discuss the Rules of HeroQuest as set out by Milton Bradley Game Systems and Quest Packs.

Re: Can Monsters open doors if...?

Postby Daedalus » Monday January 1st, 2018 3:40pm

kyrrahn wrote:I usually go with the rule that a named monster is essentially and evil hero and can then open doors. Witchlord, Skulmar etc... should all be able to open doors. The minions shouldn't. Gives the strong monsters tactical options without rendering the generic monsters broken.

Your houserule has some merit, but raises a few questions for me. Is a named monster able to open doors before it is revealed? (I imagine not.) If so, must Quest Notes dictate when? What about when the named monster is no longer in view of any Hero?

Also, is a named monster--being essentially a Hero--able to search for secret doors and treasure?
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Re: Can Monsters open doors if...?

Postby kyrrahn » Saturday January 6th, 2018 9:23pm

We normally have them follow the same guidelines set out for the final quest in WoM. We reveal areas as the monster goes there but there's no searching for treasure and no trying not to be all "Benny Hill" and lead the heroes on a non stop chase. It's more about giving the EW options so that the game can have a bit of cat and mouse. I saw it being abused once and it ruined the game but in its defence if you're playing against experienced players it forces them to adapt their tactics. Like most home-brewing it can be broken if you abuse it but it adds to the game if done right.
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Re: Can Monsters open doors if...?

Postby mitchiemasha » Sunday January 7th, 2018 7:03pm

kyrrahn wrote:We normally have them follow the same guidelines set out for the final quest in WoM. We reveal areas as the monster goes there but there's no searching for treasure and no trying not to be all "Benny Hill" and lead the heroes on a non stop chase. It's more about giving the EW options so that the game can have a bit of cat and mouse. I saw it being abused once and it ruined the game but in its defence if you're playing against experienced players it forces them to adapt their tactics. Like most home-brewing it can be broken if you abuse it but it adds to the game if done right.


I can't get on board with what you are writing here. A rule is a rule. There is no abusing it or not. A player should play out the best way it can be played. If i'm thinking i'm not going to do something because it will ruin the game, but it can be done, that means that mod/rule is broken and shouldn't be there.

Put another way... Imagine playing soft then just at the point you start to lose you whip out this 'new' rule that was there all along but didn't want to use it. That's going to upset many players and seem like you're just making it up as you go along.

If you make mods, as the modder, it's your responsibility to balance them.

Like we know players can abuse waiting outside rooms, rerolling into multiple turns for high movement (not that i've seen this but it can be done) so we introduce things like Chaos Tokens/Deck or Hazard on rolling double 1's. Mods that add fun to the game but are actually 'secretly' fixing ways experienced, purely mechanical players can 'abuse' the original rules, with out changing the original rules... As that is very UN HEROQUEST. Not welcome! lol!!!

As modders we have to think of the ways the rules can be abused and work away that abuse, with out ruining the fun or over complicating things. NOT, just simply not doing something to play more fairly. That is the very definition of BROKEN!


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Re: Can Monsters open doors if...?

Postby Goblin-King » Monday January 8th, 2018 5:17am

mitchiemasha wrote:
kyrrahn wrote:We normally have them follow the same guidelines set out for the final quest in WoM. We reveal areas as the monster goes there but there's no searching for treasure and no trying not to be all "Benny Hill" and lead the heroes on a non stop chase. It's more about giving the EW options so that the game can have a bit of cat and mouse. I saw it being abused once and it ruined the game but in its defence if you're playing against experienced players it forces them to adapt their tactics. Like most home-brewing it can be broken if you abuse it but it adds to the game if done right.


I can't get on board with what you are writing here. A rule is a rule. There is no abusing it or not. A player should play out the best way it can be played. If i'm thinking i'm not going to do something because it will ruin the game, but it can be done, that means that mod/rule is broken and shouldn't be there.

Put another way... Imagine playing soft then just at the point you start to lose you whip out this 'new' rule that was there all along but didn't want to use it. That's going to upset many players and seem like you're just making it up as you go along.

If you make mods, as the modder, it's your responsibility to balance them.

Like we know players can abuse waiting outside rooms, rerolling into multiple turns for high movement (not that i've seen this but it can be done) so we introduce things like Chaos Tokens/Deck or Hazard on rolling double 1's. Mods that add fun to the game but are actually 'secretly' fixing ways experienced, purely mechanical players can 'abuse' the original rules, with out changing the original rules... As that is very UN HEROQUEST. Not welcome! lol!!!

As modders we have to think of the ways the rules can be abused and work away that abuse, with out ruining the fun or over complicating things. NOT, just simply not doing something to play more fairly. That is the very definition of BROKEN!


This is the ancient discussion of whether the EWP is a player trying to win or a game master facilitating fun.
Both are valid viewpoints.


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Re: Can Monsters open doors if...?

Postby mitchiemasha » Monday January 8th, 2018 9:42pm

Goblin-King wrote:Both are valid viewpoints.

I agree... Both are valid to how a group choose to play.

When I play as EW i tend to do a bit of both. I see killing at least 1 hero a win. Complete wipes are no fun for players and should be quite rare, the fastest way to lose a group. We all want to progress through the story and the EW will lose in the end, overall, eventually.

My point however is, if their's a rule when abused, you pretty much always win, this is broken, regardless to the facilitate fun or play to win debate. If you feel like winning that day, abuse it!!! that's not how mods should exists. If it can be abused, it needs to be balanced. Not completely, just countered. I like games to have wonky balancing, different approaches to play, depending.


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