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Fighting in Doorways

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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby Anderas » Thursday September 14th, 2017 2:43pm

I like the idea to have several fixes. That gives the quest designer a lot of options and keeps the game interesting.

To have the pull effect as chaos spell or as evil wizard card would indeed be cool.

Mummies using their bandages magically to pull enemies into the room.
Hm no
A swamp spell to make a slippery slope going in the room?
A storm spell fitting to the cover that moves the hero until he hits the opposite wall of the room. Ah yes that could be something.


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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby Patroclus » Thursday September 14th, 2017 4:23pm

Gold Bearer wrote:
Patroclus wrote:As j_dean80 and Anderas said, use archers. Also, you can use custom mages. A simple goblin shaman in a corner with just a spell will make them get inside.

But fighting on doorways is not always unacceptable. If the heroes faced a hard encounter or if they are low on Body points they have a good reason to stay out of the room.

On the other hand, if the encounter is easy, they are full on Body points and still they don't enter, then don't engage in battle, let them come.

At last, it's a boardgame, tell them that it's ridicules. And If they still don't understand, then use more ogres in your quest, you probably need harder encounters.
Trouble is you don't know whether they're going to be struggling or not. Waiting for them to come to you doesn't work as soon as they get a crossbow. If they need to use that tactic when they're struggling it means it's more effective so why shouldn't they use it all the time? What's needed is a rule that makes it only effective some of the time. That's what I tried to do with the doors modifying cornixt's simple suggestion, it might work.

You can use archers on the next rooms, when you feel that your players start to use the doorways too much.

Yes, for sure it's more effective when they are struggling, also it’s very slow. As a player, I don’t like to use doorways because it’s slow. If I know we can clear the room in 1 or 2 rounds, why to waste so much time?

Honesty, it’s not a good idea to use the doorways. If you want to finish a quest in less than 2 hours, don’t use it, unless your group are cowards. In that case you can play monopoly.


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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby Sknks » Saturday September 16th, 2017 3:44am

Wow! I've been sick so haven't really been on and I come back and the thread has turned into this. Fantastic ideas everyone. I can try a few different ones to spice it up, I have to wait till one of them comes back from a business trip but it won't be the easy walk in the park they are expecting when they come back!
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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby Gold Bearer » Saturday September 16th, 2017 5:36am

My contribution to the variable fix.
Teleport traps in the squares outside of room doors that aren't triggered unless you start your turn on them and are still active after being triggered.

Patroclus wrote:
Gold Bearer wrote:
Patroclus wrote:As j_dean80 and Anderas said, use archers. Also, you can use custom mages. A simple goblin shaman in a corner with just a spell will make them get inside.

But fighting on doorways is not always unacceptable. If the heroes faced a hard encounter or if they are low on Body points they have a good reason to stay out of the room.

On the other hand, if the encounter is easy, they are full on Body points and still they don't enter, then don't engage in battle, let them come.

At last, it's a boardgame, tell them that it's ridicules. And If they still don't understand, then use more ogres in your quest, you probably need harder encounters.
Trouble is you don't know whether they're going to be struggling or not. Waiting for them to come to you doesn't work as soon as they get a crossbow. If they need to use that tactic when they're struggling it means it's more effective so why shouldn't they use it all the time? What's needed is a rule that makes it only effective some of the time. That's what I tried to do with the doors modifying cornixt's simple suggestion, it might work.
You can use archers on the next rooms, when you feel that your players start to use the doorways too much.
No I can't, I would never add anything to a quest on the fly because that wouldn't be fair, I'm trying to kill the heroes to make it worth playing for them. I could of course put archers in when I make the quest but that's another temporary fix that put of the problem rather than solving it. I really think the best way is a simple rule that you can't shoot through doors because you wouldn't be able to hold the door open and shoot at the same time. Then if you want to mix it up you can have quests that don't have partially closing doors and use some of the suggestions in this thread.

Patroclus wrote:Yes, for sure it's more effective when they are struggling, also it’s very slow. As a player, I don’t like to use doorways because it’s slow. If I know we can clear the room in 1 or 2 rounds, why to waste so much time?
If it's more effective when they're struggling then it's always more effective and the idea for the hero players is to survive so you can't blame them for taking the more sensible option.

Patroclus wrote:Honesty, it’s not a good idea to use the doorways. If you want to finish a quest in less than 2 hours, don’t use it, unless your group are cowards. In that case you can play monopoly.
You could make the comparison with chess and bringing the queen out. Bringing her out is more existing and speeds up the game but the best way to win is to keep her held back. I don't want the best way to be the least interesting.
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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby mitchiemasha » Sunday September 17th, 2017 9:08pm

Gold Bearer wrote: The problem in AHQ is that they didn't explain it.


The rule book is heavily bloated, they were never shy of detail. As for the 2 handed, i was going to write that but you can lean against the door. In or out over would be the issue, so the barbarian (Warrior in this case) could just smash it off it's hinges.

The problem with a bow indoors, if anything, would be height, especially the height of a door archway. Another reason standard HeroQuest is so Great... it's a Crossbow, not a Bow.

Not that the rooms are long enough to be much of an issue.

I'm more for the 'temporary fixes' as you put it in your last post. Ideas that balance against players trying something rather than just telling them they can't do something that they could. But yes, i'd never just add monsters, the Chaos tokens (from AHQ) open up the ability to add them and are standard rules for me. The character token can upgrade 1 of the monsters in a room when it's reveled. Matching type but to archer, spearman, champion etc etc.

I really think the best way is a simple rule that you can't shoot through doors because you wouldn't be able to hold the door open


Also... That is changing the original rules outright, as shooting through doors is specifically allowed. I believe the main rule to modding HQ is not to change the original but to add to it. like "lost weapons are found if the area is searched". The original rule still stands, the weapon is lost but if you search for it it's found. It still has mean to the game as monsters presence make it unsearchable, making thrown 1 shots per area.

However, Quest notes overrule everything so in a Quest you are designing i'd have no problem with... "The doors in the dungeon are of ancient Solid Oak, no doors ever so grand, their weight is immense, they cannot be destroyed and need to be held open" No shooting, spell casting or combat through doors. I wouldn't agree to it being a standard rule.
Last edited by Daedalus on Saturday December 30th, 2017 1:55pm, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Combined double post


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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby mitchiemasha » Sunday September 17th, 2017 9:09pm

Anderas wrote:Mummies using their bandages magically to pull enemies into the room.
Hm no


loled at that one, especially the "Hm no"... Good but yeah... Too cheesy! A Mummy boss perhaps!!!


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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby mitchiemasha » Sunday September 17th, 2017 9:29pm

Patroclus wrote:also it’s very slow. As a player, I don’t like to use doorways because it’s slow. If I know we can clear the room in 1 or 2 rounds, why to waste so much time?


Yes... those players would be seen as cowards, it would rarely happen at our table. The dwarf would never stand for it. We might get a Hero Protecting the Wizard but most players i've played are hungry for the kill and fight to get at the baddies first.


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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby Gold Bearer » Monday September 18th, 2017 6:43am

mitchiemasha wrote:
Gold Bearer wrote:The problem in AHQ is that they didn't explain it.
The rule book is heavily bloated, they were never shy of detail.
Which makes it all the more surprising that they didn't add one sentence to explain that rule.

mitchiemasha wrote:The problem with a bow indoors, if anything, would be height, especially the height of a door archway. Another reason standard HeroQuest is so Great... it's a Crossbow, not a Bow.
Huh? You can easily use a bow in doors, even if the bow is taller then the door, although that would be a tiny door.

mitchiemasha wrote:Also... That is changing the original rules outright, as shooting through doors is specifically allowed. I believe the main rule to modding HQ is not to change the original but to add to it. like "lost weapons are found if the area is searched". The original rule still stands, the weapon is lost but if you search for it it's found. It still has mean to the game as monsters presence make it unsearchable, making thrown 1 shots per area.
I agree in general but you could argue that adding chaos tokens is far more of an outright change. Being able to do something that isn't allowed in the standard rules (unless there's an in game reason for it like an artefact) is just as much of a change as not being able to do something that is allowed in the standard rules.

Finding thrown weapons when the room is searched works as a gameplay mechanic but not really in a way that makes sense. Searching means looking for things that are hidden. But you could have the same thing by wording differently, you can't pick up loose weapons while monsters are in the room or corridor. Same thing mechanically but without searching for something in plane sight that you even saw land.

mitchiemasha wrote:However, Quest notes overrule everything so in a Quest you are designing i'd have no problem with... "The doors in the dungeon are of ancient Solid Oak, no doors ever so grand, their weight is immense, they cannot be destroyed and need to be held open" No shooting, spell casting or combat through doors. I wouldn't agree to it being a standard rule.
Each to their own but it's a simple default setting that can easily be overruled in quest notes if you want to mix it up.
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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby Sknks » Tuesday September 19th, 2017 2:03am

mitchiemasha wrote:
Patroclus wrote:also it’s very slow. As a player, I don’t like to use doorways because it’s slow. If I know we can clear the room in 1 or 2 rounds, why to waste so much time?


Yes... those players would be seen as cowards, it would rarely happen at our table. The dwarf would never stand for it. We might get a Hero Protecting the Wizard but most players i've played are hungry for the kill and fight to get at the baddies first.


Yes, they are playing overly cautious. They go everywhere together. Search for traps and secret doors before taking a step plus the original issue. Partly I think they are over compensating for another player who since left who would walk through walls and set off several rooms trying to get back to the others and usually dying in the process.

I'm thinking maybe a time limit might work as well, force them to play a bit more aggressively
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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby Gold Bearer » Tuesday September 19th, 2017 10:37am

Another temporary fix is to do something that takes away their ammo for the rest of the quest.
Another idea is to simply add ammo rules, they might think twice about overusing ranged weapons if it's costing them money.

Sknks wrote:
mitchiemasha wrote:
Patroclus wrote:also it’s very slow. As a player, I don’t like to use doorways because it’s slow. If I know we can clear the room in 1 or 2 rounds, why to waste so much time?
Yes... those players would be seen as cowards, it would rarely happen at our table. The dwarf would never stand for it. We might get a Hero Protecting the Wizard but most players i've played are hungry for the kill and fight to get at the baddies first.
Yes, they are playing overly cautious. They go everywhere together. Search for traps and secret doors before taking a step plus the original issue. Partly I think they are over compensating for another player who since left who would walk through walls and set off several rooms trying to get back to the others and usually dying in the process.
I don't think it's cowardly, it's pragmatic. The idea is to survive, you could argue that the players that do that are getting into the game more and playing it properly. I want them to be able to find and use the most effective tactics without it hurting the excitement of the game.

Sknks wrote:I'm thinking maybe a time limit might work as well, force them to play a bit more aggressively
I had an EWP who used a real time restriction, I wasn't a fan. In game time bares no relation to real time. I don't think players should be penalised for answering the phone or going out for a smoke. :2cents:
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

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