Fighting in Doorways

Discuss the Rules of HeroQuest as set out by Milton Bradley Game Systems and Quest Packs.

Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby mitchiemasha » Friday September 8th, 2017 10:33pm

Sknks wrote:So on the weekend we were playing HQ and the heroes would just park the barbarian in the doorway with the dwarf and elf either side with long swords. As monsters can't attack diagonally I'm limited to one attack per round. If I don't go to the door they just fire their crossbow to likely kill one of the monsters.

I'm at a loss how to combat this, any ideas?


Ahh yes... This old chestnut!!! While the Heroes are well with in their rights to do this, as it's what would likely happen in many 'real' life situations, there are quite a

1st... Give Goblins Move Attack Move.
2nd... Give Skelletons diagonal Attack.
3rd... Give Fimirs Tail Bash. Free counter Attack if not killed when attacked.
4th... Give Orcs Waaagh! In the presence of a Chieftan or Champion, any skull rolled in defence are hits against the attacker.
5th... Make monsters up gradable to shield, archers, spear etc.

You'll need to add Chaos tokens from Advanced HeroQuest to get the ability to upgrade to chiampions, archers etc.
Here's the rules https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzUqo ... FhLaG9hS1U

There's another problem that arises with players abusing the mechanics, waiting outside rooms... Not revealing them until they get a high roll, skipping goes. This is why I add double ones Hazzard! Now every roll is a threat. Chaos Tokens also work to reduce this and add so much more spice.

6... Add weapons Damage to bought weapons. A Hero with a shield, a helmet and a broadsword. Rolling 3 BS, would have to discard 1 of them. Using potions and spells for buffed attacks/defence, more likely to break. (edit: they don't have to have 3 items, that's just an example).

Check out the link. Loads of other good stuff too.

The Push Back thread of old was what got me into modding HeroQuest when I returned, that's where it all started. MIGHTY BLOW, roll all skulls in attack. Roll all shields in defence. Exchange Squares is a good Elf Agility skill.
Last edited by mitchiemasha on Friday September 8th, 2017 10:40pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby mitchiemasha » Friday September 8th, 2017 10:38pm

Gold Bearer wrote:
cornixt wrote:Here's a simple solution - heroes can't attack in close combat over the threshold of a door but monsters can.
:) |_P

Edit:
I went with this so that it works the same for monsters and heroes and uses the actual door as an excuse for the rule. Not quite as simple but simple enough to be worth it I think. 'You can't attack opponents on the other side of a doorway in close combat if the door opens on the opponents side. The door gives them cover, this is to prevent heroes from standing by the door where only one can be attacked. Doors in corridors open into the room and other doors open away from the adventurer, in cases where the quest allows for doors to be opened from either side because of more than one path they'll be an arrow pointing in the direction the door opens, so the direction you can't attack from.'


I strongly oppose this idea. If the Heroes wish to play that way the should. Battling in and around crammed archways/doorways would be often the reality of Heroes in a dungeon, dealing with an onslaught.


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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby cynthialee » Friday September 8th, 2017 11:14pm

Give monsters flasks of oil for an area of effect attack that forces the heroes away from the doorway.

This might be a good mechanic...
Splats from the center of the targeted square and covers all adjacent and diagonal squares with flames that burn until the evil wizards next turn. Inflicts 2 damage, {one point may be rolled off if a 5 or 6 is rolled} to anyone in a flaming square at the beginning of their turn. If they end their turn in a flaming square they will sustain an additional 2 points of damage which may not be resisted. Running through the flames as part of ones movement will inflict 1 damage which may be rolled off on a roll of 5 or 6. If a 1 is rolled the idiot running through the fire slips on the oil and ends their turn on the first flaming square on their path.
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby Anderas » Friday September 8th, 2017 11:52pm

My Hero Nelly has a nice ability:

If she starts the turn with no adjacent Hero, she has Move-Attack-Move. If she attacks in short range, she may move herself and her target one field after the attack. That means she may even change places with her target.


I gave it as special rule to a hero because i wanted to test the push ability.
She's tried over five games now, and i can say that the players like her a lot. MAM is great, the one field movement after an attack is great, both together make her so slippery the players love her.

Now I am thinking about giving it to some few monsters, too.

MAM is already available for my Goblins. Besides, that's a huge door block killer, too. You have three Goblins with Move-Attack-Move? Well, the door blocker will get three Goblin attacks in the face, plus a fourth of another monster if you want. No, door blocking is not the best job for a hero in my games.
The only downside is, those little critters get so strong with that ability that i had to reduce the usability to not accidentally kill too many heroes.

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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby Gold Bearer » Saturday September 9th, 2017 7:27am

mitchiemasha wrote:
Gold Bearer wrote:
cornixt wrote:Here's a simple solution - heroes can't attack in close combat over the threshold of a door but monsters can.
:) |_P

Edit:
I went with this so that it works the same for monsters and heroes and uses the actual door as an excuse for the rule. Not quite as simple but simple enough to be worth it I think. 'You can't attack opponents on the other side of a doorway in close combat if the door opens on the opponents side. The door gives them cover, this is to prevent heroes from standing by the door where only one can be attacked. Doors in corridors open into the room and other doors open away from the adventurer, in cases where the quest allows for doors to be opened from either side because of more than one path they'll be an arrow pointing in the direction the door opens, so the direction you can't attack from.'
I strongly oppose this idea. If the Heroes wish to play that way the should. Battling in and around crammed archways/doorways would be often the reality of Heroes in a dungeon, dealing with an onslaught.
Hmm, I see your point. I was thinking of making it a disadvantage instead of just saying you can't do that, maybe half attack dice rounding up or something.

cynthialee wrote:Give monsters flasks of oil for an area of effect attack that forces the heroes away from the doorway.
That's a good one, so was using furniture as cover but it has the same problem, very limited use. Good for the odd occasion written into the quest notes but not good for a blanket use.

mitchiemasha wrote:There's another problem that arises with players abusing the mechanics, waiting outside rooms... Not revealing them until they get a high roll, skipping goes.
Yeap, that's annoying. I'm going to fix that with the treasure deck, it makes a decent random events deck. The EWP rolls a combat dice at the start of their turn, black shield = draw a treasure card that applies to a random hero. Then if they want to skip turns they can but at least they might get punished, more likely if they keep doing it because bad cards go back in.
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby mitchiemasha » Saturday September 9th, 2017 3:20pm

Gold Bearer wrote:
mitchiemasha wrote:There's another problem that arises with players abusing the mechanics, waiting outside rooms... Not revealing them until they get a high roll, skipping goes.
Yeap, that's annoying. I'm going to fix that with the treasure deck, it makes a decent random events deck. The EWP rolls a combat dice at the start of their turn, black shield = draw a treasure card that applies to a random hero. Then if they want to skip turns they can but at least they might get punished, more likely if they keep doing it because bad cards go back in.


The Chaos Tokens fix this as the EW picks one every turn if there were no monsters in play that round. Easy to implement in if you have Advanced Heroquest. No need to print. If not, The Evil Wizard deck is the go to alternative. I love the double 1's Hazzard Mechanic, it's created so many in game moments.


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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby mitchiemasha » Saturday September 9th, 2017 3:25pm

Anderas wrote:MAM is already available for my Goblins.


YES!!! It's essential. Especially with archers. It makes for some classic chases.

I give Push Back to the Warhammer. It could be a good defensive bonus for a chunky shield. Try out a character with Exchange Square. If you want to restrict it, the Hero needs to have Higher BP than the monster defence, now they can still get stuck once wounded.

Edit: i Realise now, your PB includes ES. I keep them separate as 1 is the result of a huge blow even if it's defended and the other is an agility, footwork skill.


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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby Anderas » Sunday September 10th, 2017 6:26am

Using Monsters that can pass through Heroes is also a nice alternative, sometimes.

Ghosts, swarms of small things like rats or snotlings, à murder of crows...


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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby Patroclus » Monday September 11th, 2017 4:42am

As j_dean80 and Anderas said, use archers. Also, you can use custom mages. A simple goblin shaman in a corner with just a spell will make them get inside.

But fighting on doorways is not always unacceptable. If the heroes faced a hard encounter or if they are low on Body points they have a good reason to stay out of the room.

On the other hand, if the encounter is easy, they are full on Body points and still they don't enter, then don't engage in battle, let them come.

At last, it's a boardgame, tell them that it's ridicules. And If they still don't understand, then use more ogres in your quest, you probably need harder encounters.


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Re: Fighting in Doorways

Postby Gold Bearer » Monday September 11th, 2017 5:08am

mitchiemasha wrote:
Gold Bearer wrote:
mitchiemasha wrote:There's another problem that arises with players abusing the mechanics, waiting outside rooms... Not revealing them until they get a high roll, skipping goes.
Yeap, that's annoying. I'm going to fix that with the treasure deck, it makes a decent random events deck. The EWP rolls a combat dice at the start of their turn, black shield = draw a treasure card that applies to a random hero. Then if they want to skip turns they can but at least they might get punished, more likely if they keep doing it because bad cards go back in.
The Chaos Tokens fix this as the EW picks one every turn if there were no monsters in play that round. Easy to implement in if you have Advanced Heroquest. No need to print. If not, The Evil Wizard deck is the go to alternative. I love the double 1's Hazzard Mechanic, it's created so many in game moments.
Yea I know, I was thinking of my quest pack, I'm trying not to add too much. I'll use the treasure card draw on a black shield as the standard and say this would be a good place to plug in other rules, like if you roll a black shield roll again, skull = evil wizard card, white shield = treasure card, black shield = chaos token.

Patroclus wrote:As j_dean80 and Anderas said, use archers. Also, you can use custom mages. A simple goblin shaman in a corner with just a spell will make them get inside.

But fighting on doorways is not always unacceptable. If the heroes faced a hard encounter or if they are low on Body points they have a good reason to stay out of the room.

On the other hand, if the encounter is easy, they are full on Body points and still they don't enter, then don't engage in battle, let them come.

At last, it's a boardgame, tell them that it's ridicules. And If they still don't understand, then use more ogres in your quest, you probably need harder encounters.
Trouble is you don't know whether they're going to be struggling or not. Waiting for them to come to you doesn't work as soon as they get a crossbow. If they need to use that tactic when they're struggling it means it's more effective so why shouldn't they use it all the time? What's needed is a rule that makes it only effective some of the time. That's what I tried to do with the doors modifying cornixt's simple suggestion, it might work.
:goblin: 1BP, :orc: 2BP, :fimir: 3BP, :skeleton: 1BP, :zombie: 2BP, :mummy: 3BP, :chaoswarrior: 4BP, :gargoyle: 5BP. US :chaoswarrior: 3BP, US :gargoyle: 4BP.

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