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Removing Falling Block Traps

Discuss the Rules of HeroQuest as set out by Milton Bradley Game Systems and Quest Packs.

Re: Incorrectly Played Rules

Postby GimmeYerGold » Saturday February 20th, 2016 11:37pm

The NA version clears it up by stipulating that once the falling block trap is triggered, the figure suffers 3 combat dice worth of damage (which they cannot block) and must move forward or backwards of the now blocked square.


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Re: Incorrectly Played Rules

Postby mitchiemasha » Sunday February 21st, 2016 6:29am

GimmeYerGold wrote:The NA version clears it up by stipulating that once the falling block trap is triggered, the figure suffers 3 combat dice worth of damage (which they cannot block) and must move forward or backwards of the now blocked square.


That makes lil sense to me. I'll have to read the NA rules again, not looked at them in a while... isn't rolling a shield a block.


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Re: Incorrectly Played Rules

Postby mitchiemasha » Sunday February 21st, 2016 6:40am

So NA rules, you can remove a falling block trap... But like a pit trap only before it's been sprung.


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Re: Incorrectly Played Rules

Postby Redav » Sunday February 21st, 2016 8:44pm

I thought you were supposed to indicate that this tile is dodgy and then someone could walk up to it and then remove it?
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Re: Incorrectly Played Rules

Postby Count Mohawk » Sunday February 21st, 2016 11:00pm

Redav wrote:I thought you were supposed to indicate that this tile is dodgy and then someone could walk up to it and then remove it?

Yeah, that's also a thing the NA rules do - if you Search for Traps and find one, Zargon is supposed to point it out by describing what a concealed trap would look like. For a pit trap, "the floor looks weak"; for a falling block trap, "the ceiling looks dangerous", and so on. The NA rules further point out that merely searching for a trap does not put the tile onto the board, as it has not yet been sprung, thus patching the confusion from the EU versions.


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Re: Incorrectly Played Rules

Postby mitchiemasha » Sunday February 21st, 2016 11:42pm

Redav wrote:I thought you were supposed to indicate that this tile is dodgy and then someone could walk up to it and then remove it?


Yeap... That's NA rules.


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Re: Incorrectly Played Rules

Postby Daedalus » Monday March 27th, 2017 6:16pm

Redav wrote:
knightkrawler wrote:I didn't. I know exactly what you mean and you're right. It's another big honking glitch in EU 2nd edition.

Same here and I agree that it's poorly written and misleading but everyone agrees that HQ was never play-tested or proofread particularly well. I'm just saying that there's no falling block tile that can be placed therefore the only thing that can be placed are rocks and not a trap. If there was a trap tile that could be placed then yes, it could be removed by the dwarf or tool kit.

According to Stephen Baker in a Games Review Monthly interview, Hero Quest was play-tested in about 30 sessions. It seems problems should be mainly attributed to the editing process. I agree MB missed the opportunity to print a falling rock symbol (like those found in the maps) on the back of a few of the blocked square markers.
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Re: Incorrectly Played Rules

Postby mitchiemasha » Monday March 27th, 2017 8:37pm

Daedalus wrote: I agree MB missed the opportunity to print a falling rock symbol (like those found in the maps) on the back of a few of the blocked square markers.


For the UK version there would be no need to print these.


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Re: Removing Falling Block Traps

Postby Daedalus » Wednesday March 29th, 2017 4:57pm

Printing a falling block symbol as a tile isn't needed, but it could have made play clearer when deciding if a blocked square marker could be removed as a yet-to-be triggered falling block trap...which brings me to the next post I was preparing:

mitchiemasha wrote:
mitchiemasha wrote:So... falling block traps UK edition. By the rules the dwarf and tool kit can remove these.

Page 12 5th line
Pit traps and falling block traps are placed on the board when found

Dwarf...
you may remove any visible traps in the same room or corridor

As the quote still refers to the falling block trap as a trap even though it no longer is, technically the dwarf can remove this. The mechanic should state somewhere that the falling block is now no longer a trap, unless they want it to remain so.

The rest of the paragraph on page 12 goes on to say about the tool kit and the dwarf. How they can remove a trap from the board. As the opening line says "falling block traps are placed on the board", they can be removed. I guess thematically, if the tool kit holder was to attempt to remove the falling block trap, after it had fell, rolling a skull signifies more rocks falling on them.

Thanks to the Quest for the Spirit Blade, where falling block traps aren't falling block traps, we've never revealed falling block traps when searching, just simply pointing out the dangerous square, which we have to remember.

Also Barak Tor, which waits for the last Hero to pass. If the dwarf can remove this as the rules suggest, it break this quest feature. THOUGHTS???


Redav wrote:Once a falling block trap has been activated, the rock tile is placed but the trap no longer exists so I'd say the dwarf can't remove that


That's how sense would rule it and how we always played... But it's not wrote that way any where in the UK rule book. It clearly refers to falling block TRAPS being placed on the board and the next line states how the tool kit/Dwarf can remove any visible traps. If it had said falling block traps tiles yes but it still refers to it as a trap and it's on the board, visible.

So if the rule book was simple maths/algebra, they can be removed.

My main problem is how it's the very next line and nothing is said anywhere to differentiate.

You're sense that the EU rules should be more explicit and consistent regarding trap tiles is justified, in my opinion. I had the same problem with contradictions the UK 2ND edition trap rules when responding to a question about the permanence of a triggered pit trap here; it took a lot of consideration to arrive at a satisfactory answer--satisfactory for me, at least. I've made my peace through some nuanced interpretation--maybe it can help:

Functionally speaking, traps in EU Hero Quest fall into five vs groups:

  1. traps marked on the Quest Map and/or detailed in the Quest Notes that haven't yet been found
  2. traps that have been found and placed, but haven't yet been triggered or removed
  3. traps that are rendered harmless, either through being found (no tile) or being removed (tile)
  4. traps that have been triggered and leave some kind of effect on the board
  5. traps that are rendered harmless with no further effect, having been triggered

The EU trap rules differentiate between a found trap and a triggered trap through context. The placement and removal of found traps as tiles (groups 2 and 3) is discussed on p.12 under Secret Doors and traps. The Dwarf's ability and use of the tool kit applies to this circumstance, as evidenced by mention of his trap removal ability in that section. In the next section, Traps, the setting off of a trap by a Hero, but not a monster, is discussed. Finally, individual triggered-trap effects (groups 4 and 5) are covered in their own sections, including Falling Block.

    Falling Block

    When a character player moves through a square containing a falling block symbol, a block will fall. It will land into the adjacent square marked with the arrow on the Quest map, blocking the way. Any character or monster in the square into which the block falls...[more rules]...he is eliminated by the falling block.
Notably, any mention of the word trap is lacking in the section describing the effects of a falling block. I believe this omission is intentional, as a fallen block is no longer meant to be considered a trap. Rather, a fallen block is merely an obstacle, an effect of the trap. Therefore, while a fallen block trap (placed as a tile) may be removed from the board, a fallen block (blocking as a single blocked square marker) may not.

On a final note about context, I'd discount the text on the Dwarf character card as a rules reference. As a part of a short synopsis to help choose between Heroes, it imprecisely mentions his remove traps ability rather than defines it's use. A Dwarf can't remove any visible trap--this is left over from the first edition; he must be adjacent to it, as defined on p.12 of the second edition.

About the Barak Tor falling block trap, I'd say it's fine that the special falling block trap can be found and removed, just as with the standard type. A careful group merely retains another route for escape, while the Quest objective is unaffected. Only an impetuous group need feel the closing doom of this trap.
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Re: Removing Falling Block Traps

Postby mitchiemasha » Thursday March 30th, 2017 11:04pm

We always played it that falling blocks can't be removed and didn't see the rock as a trap. I hadn't noticed the omission of the word trap in falling block, well spotted.


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