Potions: how do they work?

[Anderas]

Wouldn't be the first screw up.

That thief class.... Wow. The ability to use a potion from an adjacent standing model is one of the evilest ideas I've seen. That works only with the EU rules allowance to attack your fellow heroes, otherwise the victims would be totally helpless!

[Kurgan]

Important! After your Body Points have reached zero, you can never be saved by a fellow Hero's spell or potion. It will be too late. You will have died by the time it is your fellow Hero's turn--the only time when he can cast a spell or give you a potion.

This also says you would have to use the Healing Spell out of turn because “It will be too late.” if you waited ‘til your next turn. Or it is saying it would have to be on your current turn, but there’s no circumstance that would allow you to on your turn either.

It means by the next Hero's turn, so it would have to be on your own turn that you save yourself. The question is whether you can do your action "right then" which is how we all interpreted it up until this discussion. Most of the time when you die it's going to be on Zargon's turn.

We just played it like... oh, you died. Do you have any healing potions? (If so, revived). No? Do you have a healing spell? (Yes: Okay, but you already did an action just then when you searched for treasure, sorry... hope they find the elixir of life or you're starting with a new Hero on the next quest!).

The "does it make logical sense" issue is less important to me than "what was the intention of the designers here." I am treating it though a bit like defense... it just automatically kicks in.

Other players just say "screw it" and say another Hero CAN heal you on their own turn, after you have died technically. I'm still going with the "you have a chance to save yourself at the time" and not JUST with a potion of healing.

[j_dean80]

Important! After your Body Points have reached zero, you can never be saved by a fellow Hero's spell or potion. It will be too late. You will have died by the time it is your fellow Hero's turn--the only time when he can cast a spell or give you a potion.

This also says you would have to use the Healing Spell out of turn because “It will be too late.” if you waited ‘til your next turn. Or it is saying it would have to be on your current turn, but there’s no circumstance that would allow you to on your turn either.

It means by the next Hero's turn, so it would have to be on your own turn that you save yourself. The question is whether you can do your action "right then" which is how we all interpreted it up until this discussion. Most of the time when you die it's going to be on Zargon's turn.

We just played it like... oh, you died. Do you have any healing potions? (If so, revived). No? Do you have a healing spell? (Yes: Okay, but you already did an action just then when you searched for treasure, sorry... hope they find the elixir of life or you're starting with a new Hero on the next quest!).

The "does it make logical sense" issue is less important to me than "what was the intention of the designers here." I am treating it though a bit like defense... it just automatically kicks in.

Other players just say "screw it" and say another Hero CAN heal you on their own turn, after you have died technically. I'm still going with the "you have a chance to save yourself at the time" and not JUST with a potion of healing.

Following the written rules makes the Elixir of Life more important. Otherwise, it is just a glorified healing potion.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

That'll teach me (or at least it should) for looking to the US rules for clarification on a point where the EU v2 rules are perfectly clear.

If your Body point total ever reaches zero, then your character is eliminated, he is no more, has ceased to be, is bereft of life, rests in peace, his metabolic processes are a matter of interest only to historians, he is an ex-hero.

Simple

That said it is good to get some clarity on the passing items rules as they are entirely absent from the EU v2 edition

[Daedalus]

That'll teach me (or at least it should) for looking to the US rules for clarification on a point where the EU v2 rules are perfectly clear.

If your Body point total ever reaches zero, then your character is eliminated, he is no more, has ceased to be, is bereft of life, rests in peace, his metabolic processes are a matter of interest only to historians, he is an ex-hero.

NA response: My Hero isn't dead, he's just resting.

[Kurgan]

The great thing about the elixir of life is it can work long after a player's hero died, even (in theory) on a later quest (though chances are you just collected his gear and brought in another identical renamed hero). But players get attached to their old characters so...

Beyond reviving the dead at any time, yes, it is like a glorified healing potion that restores your body and mind to maximum. It should only be usable on a hero who is dead or effectively dead (ex: reduced to zero mind points pre-EQP/BQP, trapped forever, etc). In the latter case, he should appear on a safe square.

If a valued NPC died and you used it on them, how would that work? "Uh, no sir, he didn't really die, we can still collect the reward...!"

You could always interpret it as the smallest glimmer of life remains and the elixir fires that back up again plus the usual healing effects or just straight up miraculous resurrection.

[Bareheaded Warrior]

I'm reviewing the Second Edition rules at the moment and one of the issues raised is around "giving item" rules which in SE are very open and vague (I refer to the rule as 'giving' rather than 'passing' to prevent any confusion with the rules around Heroes and Monster passing each other as part of movement)

Other heroes may regain their equipment by being in the same room or passageway as the hero who collected everything.

This seems to imply that Heroes can give each other equipment simply by being in the same room or passageway as each other

One obvious way of improving this rule is to look to the NA Edition especially as there is the promise of a rule clarification from EQP/BQP and these are rare enough to warrant serious attention.

Passing Items: A Hero can pass a potion, artifact, weapon, or any other item to another Hero only if the 2 Heroes are in adjacent squares and neither Hero is adjacent to a monster.

However unfortunately this particular "clarification" isn't particularly clear on a number of points

1) It doesn't specify whether the giving/passing must happen on the givers turn only
2) It doesn't state that this is an action, so presumably it isn't, so it must be a 'free action' like opening doors
3) It implies a limit of one item, by using the word "a", but if it is a free action then it can be done any number of times, so effectively no limit
4) The "no monster in adjacent squares" bit, whilst clear, isn't consistent, under standard HQ rules, you can drink potions, stroll out of combat, switch weapons, open doors, all with a monster adjacent, so why not be able to give/pass item(s)
5) It contains an exploit/loophole, see below.

A Hero, moves adjacent to another Hero, uses his action to attack and kill an Orc with Orcs' Bane, then gives/passes Orcs' Bane to the adjacent Hero.
That Hero, moves adjacent to another Hero, uses his action to attack and kill an Orc with Orcs' Bane, then gives/passes Orcs' Bane to the adjacent Hero.
That Hero ... you get the picture

Ironically, point (1) is already covered in the NA Edition rulebook, so it is the "clarification" here that is causing confusion.

Important! After your Body Points have reached zero, you can never be saved by a fellow Hero's spell or potion. It will be too late. You will have died by the time it is your fellow Hero's turn--the only time when he can cast a spell or give you a potion.

Giving can only happen on your turn (although not receiving, obviously)

To fix the loophole presented in (5) above and to fix (2) and (3), I would suggest making giving items an action, therefore limiting it to once per turn (and on your turn), but modifying the text to make it multiple items

To fix (4) I would just remove that part of the text. (Obviously if within your own ruleset you have rules such as "pinning rules" that add restrictions to these other activities then you might want to apply these here for consistency)

So in summary, I propose the following...

Giving Items: As an action, a character can pass potions, artefacts, weapons, or any other items to another character that is in an adjacent square.