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Potions, Traps and Throwing Weapons

Discuss the Rules of HeroQuest as set out by Milton Bradley Game Systems and Quest Packs.

Re: Potions, Traps and Throwing Weapons

Postby knightkrawler » Saturday October 15th, 2016 10:50am

mitchiemasha wrote:I replace room or corridor with area, unless it's specifically 1 or the other.


Exactly my terminology.
A corridor section includes both corners/crossings. |_P
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Re: Potions, Traps and Throwing Weapons

Postby Daedalus » Thursday March 30th, 2017 9:19pm

As I stated earlier, I allow a thrown weapon to be recovered as a special treasure search action that may also be done in corridors (I use NA rules.) Then Anderas' post sparked an idea...

Anderas wrote:For treasure search, i state that you:
* Take a treasure card
* find thrown cards if the enemy that you threw at was in this room
* find dropped equipment and equipment of dead heroes
if the room was never out of sight since the throwing, dying or dropping took place.

So throwing and finding is two actions in total, whereas the finding is put together with the treasure search, so it shouldn't stretch the game.

...and GimmeYerGold's next post confirmed it:

GimmeYerGold wrote:Combining the recovery of thrown weapons with another search is a good idea to speed things up, and fits thematically. Since the hero is drawing a treasure card as well, with a chance for finding treasure or trouble, I feel that it is reasonable that a Hero may encounter a Hazard or Wandering Monster while searching for their lost dagger or handaxe as well.

My reworked rule is to allow thrown weapons to be recovered by a special treasure search action in a room or corridor, as before. In addition, the Hero draws a Treasure Card. If the card is treasure, discard it. Wandering Monster and Hazard cards apply as usual.

The idea is to include a cost for retaining a valuable weapon. Losing a treasure search action isn't enough of a penalty, in retrospect.
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Re: Potions, Traps and Throwing Weapons

Postby mitchiemasha » Thursday March 30th, 2017 10:30pm

So does this mean we can make it an official Forum rule. I vote yes... "Thrown weapons are found if the room is searched"


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Re: Potions, Traps and Throwing Weapons

Postby HispaZargon » Saturday May 13th, 2023 7:24pm

Ethica wrote:
3 Throwing Weapons

According to the rules- When you throw a spear or hand axe you lose it.

I don't think this makes much sense either. Why would you lose it? Surely you would just go and pick it up, or pull it from your victims body?

We play it so you can re-use thrown weapons, I don't see anything wrong with this. The location of the thrown wepon is marked with an upside-down tile. Monsters can also pick the weapon up and throw it back, if they have the intelligence to.

About this topic, yes I also think it is unbalanced, so this is how I play: The weapon is only lost forever if at least one Black Shield is rolled in the Attack rolling of the hero. Otherwise, the weapon could be later found by a search action in the area of the board where the target was placed.

This rule fix will consider the weapons which rolls more attack dice would be lost easier, but I like it to avoid having too overpowered throwing weapons which cannot be lost as easy as in the official rules, otherwise they could break the game. Additionaly, we can interprete that probably their weight is higher so probably they could be broken easier. For me losing them does not mean only that they cannot be found, it could also be that they could be broken.


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Re: Potions, Traps and Throwing Weapons

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » Sunday May 14th, 2023 3:56am

HispaZargon wrote:The weapon is only lost forever if at least one Black Shield is rolled in the Attack rolling of the hero. Otherwise, the weapon could be later found by a search action in the area of the board where the target was placed.

This rule fix will consider the weapons which rolls more attack dice would be lost easier, but I like it to avoid having too overpowered throwing weapons which cannot be lost as easy as in the official rules, otherwise they could break the game. Additionally, we can interpret that probably their weight is higher so probably they could be broken easier. For me losing them does not mean only that they cannot be found, it could also be that they could be broken.


Bareheaded Warrior wrote:Throwing weapons are only lost/damaged beyond repair if you miss i.e. all shields on your attack roll, but otherwise can be recovered by moving to the target square or automatically if the area is searched.

This encourages the use of throwing weapons and therefore actually increases the gold drain for Heroes as 'throw it and lose it' tends to translate into 'don't throw it'. This method also means the cheaper weapons such as daggers that roll less dice are more likely to be lost / damaged beyond repair which seems appropriate.


I think we are very closely aligned on this, just leaning in opposite directions, your approach makes the higher AD presumably more expensive weapons more likely to be lost (and therefore less likely to be thrown or bought), mine goes the opposite way making the higher AD, more expensive weapons less likely to be lost (and therefore more likely to be thrown and bought). Both increase the likelihood that throwing weapons will be purchased and used compared to the official rules, but unsurprisingly I prefer my leaning...as yours moves more towards the original as the AD increases...which whilst that has a neat application of the law of diminishing returns making hypothetical higher AD throwing weapons less appealing, it also makes them less likely to be bought or used which for me reduces the effectiveness of the rule change which is to make throwing weapons more likely to be bought and used). Also, smaller weapons you would think are more easily lost...

Crunching the numbers to see what the actual difference is between these two approaches

Dagger/Throwing Knife (1AD) - at least one black shield = 16.67% v all shields = 50%
Hand/Throwing Axe (2AD) - at least one black shield = 30.561% v all shields = 25%
Hypothetical Throwing Weapon (3AD) - at least one black shield = 42.136% v all shields = 12.5%
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

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HQ Golden Rules Rule Fixes based on Original 1989 HeroQuest.

HQ Common Notification System to identify squares on the board


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Re: Potions, Traps and Throwing Weapons

Postby HispaZargon » Sunday May 14th, 2023 7:07pm

Well, it is true that my first idea probably penalizes in excess the bigger weapons, however I think your method penalizes in excess the smallest ones since it does not give the change to recover them if they do not impact the target (= rolling skulls), which I think is too unrealistic. Therefore I think probably the best solution would be in a middle point of both approachs.

Then, what if the weapon is only lost if all Attack dice roll White Shields? This would give us the following probabilities of losing the weapon:

Dagger/Throwing Knife (1AD) all white shields = 33.33%
Hand/Throwing Axe (2AD) all white shields = 16.67%
Hypothetical Throwing Weapon (3AD) all white shields = 8.33%

Another point we have not talk about is if we should limit the range of the throwing weapons. Attending to the miniatures size compared with the squares size, for me has been always quite difficult to believe that a dagger may be thrown in a perfect straight line and keeping all its poor aerodynamic properties through 25 squares of the board, so my answer is their range should be limited. In my games I use to limit it to the same number of squares as the number of starting Body Points the Hero who throws the weapon has (8 squares range for the Barbarian, 7 for the Dwarf, etc.).

And finally those all previous thoughts have remember me the Bandolier official rules of the remake. They basicaly suggest that the Bandolier has infinite daggers inside, well, of course if the Bandolier is not magical, that should be imposible, and maybe the real meaning of those rules is the Rogue probably uses to recover most of the daggers he throws, so we can assume he has access to infinite ones, but he does not own infinite ones there. Then, again it seems that the classic rule of losing the weapon when thrown has been always a bit crazy and now Hasbro tries to bypass it in some way with this item because they wanted to have a Hero specialized in throwing weapons. Just thinking aloud...


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Re: Potions, Traps and Throwing Weapons

Postby Bareheaded Warrior » Tuesday May 16th, 2023 7:17am

HispaZargon wrote:I think your method penalizes in excess the smallest ones since it does not give the change to recover them if they do not impact the target (= rolling skulls), which I think is too unrealistic.


Perhaps but if a Dagger/Throwing Knife only costs 25gc then as a hero I'm not that bothered whether I have a 50-50 chance of losing it, I'd still buy and use it when required. A Hand/Throwing Axe at 150gc would be a harder call and is more where this rule needs to be focussed.

HispaZargon wrote:Then, what if the weapon is only lost if all Attack dice roll White Shields? This would give us the following probabilities of losing the weapon:

Dagger/Throwing Knife (1AD) all white shields = 33.33%
Hand/Throwing Axe (2AD) all white shields = 16.67%
Hypothetical Throwing Weapon (3AD) all white shields = 8.33%


I did originally consider this and I think it is workable, my only concern (and it is a minor one) is that my proposal uses an existing idea, a "miss" that is already detailed in the game as "rolling no skulls" so I'd prefer to re-use that than need to create a new idea of a "miss but still recover" and a "miss and lost/broken"

With my current (more mature) group I use the "Super HeroQuest Rule" that you can see in my signature and under that rule a "miss" only occurs on (white) shields anyway so no discrepancy.

I'm happy to go with the throwing weapon is lost if all white shields are rolled on the attack dice for the Polishing the SE, if there are no other objections/suggestions/improvements

HispaZargon wrote:Another point we have not talk about is if we should limit the range of the throwing weapons. Attending to the miniatures size compared with the squares size, for me has been always quite difficult to believe that a dagger may be thrown in a perfect straight line and keeping all its poor aerodynamic properties through 25 squares of the board, so my answer is their range should be limited. In my games I use to limit it to the same number of squares as the number of starting Body Points the Hero who throws the weapon has (8 squares range for the Barbarian, 7 for the Dwarf, etc.).


In terms of limiting the range of throwing weapons, I have toyed with this idea, whether it is really needed or not, and I'm on the fence. That said if the consensus was that it improved the game then I would include it but would limit the maximum range to 9 squares, not a fan of the basing it on BP as that makes things complicated when you consider a monster with a throwing weapon, and if you go with the current BP basis (you specified "starting BP" so this doesn't apply to your suggestion), it also makes the "range" of the weapon vary based on health, which is a neat concept but doesn't sit with all other attacks that are not based on health, so it makes it inconsistent.

HispaZargon wrote:Then, again it seems that the classic rule of losing the weapon when thrown has been always a bit crazy and now Hasbro tries to bypass it in some way with this item because they wanted to have a Hero specialized in throwing weapons. Just thinking aloud...


I suspect that is exactly the reason!
:skull: = white skull, one "hit"
:blackshield: = black skull, one "hit"
:whiteshield: = shield, cancels out one "hit"

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