Ye Olde Inn

Daedalus spilled it out pretty well--the rule-of-thumb, as written in the rules, gives us the formula to calculate possible line of sight. If they had had other intentions for the use of furniture, they surely would have written them down for us. Because line-of-sight rules that regard doorways rule using a horizontal axis, and because line-of-sight in hallways is blocked by other figures we know that it also rules using a vertical axis. Therefore, we know that the line-of-sight rules regard three dimensions without aligning with a logical "grid."

How I track line-of-sight is that I place a thin dowel on the shoulders of the "shooter" and his intended target, while each is centered in their squares. If the dowel does not intersect a wall or obstacle even a tiny bit, it indicates a valid "shot."

Sjeng wrote:I don't know if I said it before here, but we houserule that you can fire or throw any ranged weapon over a table, for a penalty of 1 combat die. The table blocks half of the monster, so your chances of hitting it are reduced. Makes sense to me.

But not to me, because if you refer to the infamous line of sight diagram (which is reproduced on the line of sight thread many, many times so I don't want to sully this thread with another copy!) and look at the example of the Elf's LOS to the Orc in the top left hand corner (one of the few lines of sight on that diagram that isn't considered controversial) then it is clear that the Elf has a view of exactly 50% of the target square but there is no reference to 50% of a target being visible having a penalty of 1 combat die, so to apply your rule above to one situation and not the other is introducing an inconsistency.

Big Bene wrote:

Guybrush Threepwood wrote:Talking daggers: Do you allow throwing daggers over a table?

Yes. The effects of furniture are practically not covered in the original rules, and it's tempting to make houserules fo that. But in fact, it's just another case of the ingenious simplicity that makes HQ so great. For "low" furniture (tables etc.) there's no effect mentioned in the rules, so it has no effect in the game - doesn't block line of sight or shooting. As for "high" furniture (cupboards, fireplace), it is always placed at the walls in all official quests, so blocking LoS is out of question anyway.

I think that you are broadly correct, in the Second Edition, there are no rules for how furniture impacts on line of sight because the unwritten rules around furniture placement means that none are needed (not true for NA edition that does need clarification). However the game "system" does encourage players to create their own Quests and the unwritten rule around placing tall furniture against walls is missing in that regard. There is also the somewhat obscure and rare, but possible, situation in which tall furniture such as a bookcase could be placed against a wall in a room and have one figure against the same wall on one side of the bookcase and a second figure against the same wall on the other side of the bookcase. In that instance would line of sight be considered blocked for the purposes of missile attacks?

yeah for all intents and purposes you could replace the NA GS furniture with stone block tiles for all most quests care about them... (except you can pass through stone with magic but there's no mechanic for passing through furniture.. the Companion App lets you but it's more of a debugging feature)

Speaking of the App, and I know it's no determination of original intent (some bugs and limitations still exist obviously) but it does let monsters pass straight through Treasure chests, even if "intangible furniture" is turned off.

Kurgan wrote:yeah for all intents and purposes you could replace the NA GS furniture with stone block tiles for all most quests care about them... (except you can pass through stone with magic but there's no mechanic for passing through furniture.. the Companion App lets you but it's more of a debugging feature)

Speaking of the App, and I know it's no determination of original intent (some bugs and limitations still exist obviously) but it does let monsters pass straight through Treasure chests, even if "intangible furniture" is turned off.

I wonder if monsters moving through treasure chests is because of that weird room in Quest 4 of Kellar’s Keep. Behind the treasure chest “E” there is a secret door, and no mention is made that the chest moves to the side or anything, so you have to assume at that point you can walk over treasure chest spaces. I don’t remember if any other quests have similar secret doors. I believe Melar’s Maze has a door behind a throne, but the quest notes specifically mention the throne moves revealing the door.

Another possibility is the heroes might be allowed to move the chest, as in the quest Prince Magnus’ Gold. The heroes (even the Wizard) can pick up a chest and carry it around at reduced movement. This could mean the designer thought the heroes would just move the chest out of the way to get to that special chest in KK.

SirRick wrote:I wonder if monsters moving through treasure chests is because of that weird room in Quest 4 of Kellar’s Keep. Behind the treasure chest “E” there is a secret door, and no mention is made that the chest moves to the side or anything, so you have to assume at that point you can walk over treasure chest spaces. I don’t remember if any other quests have similar secret doors. I believe Melar’s Maze has a door behind a throne, but the quest notes specifically mention the throne moves revealing the door.

You may well be right, I play SE and we don't have that particular hiccup in Quest 4 of KK as far as I am aware, but the easiest and simplest resolution would appear to be to follow the logic in Melar's Maze and just add a comment to the Quest note stating that searching for secret doors in this room will cause the chest to slide to one side, revealing a secret door.