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Pass through rock - furniture and monsters

Discuss the Rules of HeroQuest as set out by Milton Bradley Game Systems and Quest Packs.

Re: Pass through rock - furniture and monsters

Postby knightkrawler » Wednesday May 6th, 2015 11:28am

Now that's what I'm talking about in simple words. Thanks for that.
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Re: Pass through rock - furniture and monsters

Postby cornixt » Wednesday May 6th, 2015 11:41am

Do you let him through a closed/locked door? They are usually wooden, like furniture.


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Re: Pass through rock - furniture and monsters

Postby knightkrawler » Wednesday May 6th, 2015 12:55pm

"through walls." "through as many walls...".
Where are closed doors mentioned? Nowhere. Why? Because the rule how doors should be handled by a hero under the effect of Pass Through Rock is not changed.
That means, if he goes through a doors he opens it and activates the room as normal.
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Re: Pass through rock - furniture and monsters

Postby cornixt » Wednesday May 6th, 2015 2:05pm

Do secret doors count as walls until they are opened, or are they doors at all times and not possible to pass through with the spell even before they are discovered?


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Re: Pass through rock - furniture and monsters

Postby knightkrawler » Wednesday May 6th, 2015 2:11pm

As long as there is no tile on the board (secret door searched for and found), there is no door, only wall. See my last post for that case.
After a secret door is found, it is opened. No need to pass through rock in that case. That's normal walking under the effect of Pass Thorugh Rock, coincidentally.
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Re: Pass through rock - furniture and monsters

Postby Daedalus » Tuesday June 2nd, 2015 1:49am

New case. What about running up against furniture that is made of stone? A tomb or Altar--I'd say probably not passable, as it isn't wall or contiguous with wall like solid rock. A fireplace--I'd say why not. It is built into the wall and is contiguous, just as solid rock. Very wall-like, and hopefully cold.
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Re: Pass through rock - furniture and monsters

Postby knightkrawler » Tuesday June 2nd, 2015 2:01am

The card says "walls". Again, there is no reason to debate over anything the card says. In conjunction with the rulebook and the fact that card text overrules rulebook text, the card is as one-way-interpretable as they come. It's simple and clear.
Now, do some re-writes for those special cases that you obviously want to be there but that just are not.
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Re: Pass through rock - furniture and monsters

Postby Anderas » Tuesday June 2nd, 2015 2:19am

Clash of RPG with rules.

If my kid had the idea to cross the fireplace with pass through rock, I would readily say yes and be happy that she developed the idea alone.

Of course if you want to make it official, you better change the card text.


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Re: Pass through rock - furniture and monsters

Postby knightkrawler » Tuesday June 2nd, 2015 2:38am

Anderas wrote:Clash of RPG with rules.

If my kid had the idea to cross the fireplace with pass through rock, I would readily say yes and be happy that she developed the idea alone.

Of course if you want to make it official, you better change the card text.


And that's the difficult thing to do. You could what? Reword "wall" into "rock" or "stone".
But then you'd have to define those terms in-game uninterpretably, like "wall" is. What game component could be considered "rock"? You'd have to give them the attribute "rock" officially.
The game component that hasn't got "rock" as an attribute cannot be passed, even with Pass Through Rock, under any circumstances.
So you have to make a new furniture chart with attributes and clear definitions.

See, that's what my ruleset is all about. Not about changing this and that to make the game more complicated, but about changing rule language to make it as unambiguous as possible.
Reading the rulebook might be a mouthful until you learn how it all works, but playing will be less difficult in that there is no debate among players, at least not a second time about the same issue.

If I were playing with kids, I'd probably go with your assessment, not only in-game, but in parenting in general. But I'm not playing with kids.

This is how I've rewritten the spell:

    Pass Through Rock
    - earth -
    This spell may be cast on any one figure.
    The target figure may move through walls into both defined
    and undefined areas during their next movement.
    When they want to enter an unexplored area,
    Morcar tells them square for square if the move is possible.
    If the target figure ends their turn in an undefined square
    they immediately lose all their remaining body points.

That's what happens if you change something. Every last card has to be revisited.

Italized terms are attributes that are cross-referenced by other cards with effects on items with the attribute. All other terms therein (wall, defined, undefined, unexplored area, lose all body points) are all meticulously defined in the rulebook, for instance if you lose all remaining body points you have to discard all your remaining body point tokens into the pool. As soon as you have no body point tokens in front of you your figure is dead and out of the quest. You go make a garlic dip.
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Re: Pass through rock - furniture and monsters

Postby Count Mohawk » Tuesday June 2nd, 2015 7:39am

knightkrawler wrote:
    Pass Through Rock
    - earth -
    This spell may be cast on any one figure.
    The target figure may move through walls into both defined
    and undefined areas during their next movement.
    When they want to enter an unexplored area,
    Morcar tells them square for square if the move is possible.
    If the target figure ends their turn in an undefined square
    they immediately lose all their remaining body points.

That's what happens if you change something. Every last card has to be revisited.

Italized terms are attributes that are cross-referenced by other cards with effects on items with the attribute. All other terms therein (wall, defined, undefined, unexplored area, lose all body points) are all meticulously defined in the rulebook, for instance if you lose all remaining body points you have to discard all your remaining body point tokens into the pool. As soon as you have no body point tokens in front of you your figure is dead and out of the quest. You go make a garlic dip.

As written, wouldn't the loss of body points caused by this spell if a Hero ends his turn in an undefined area / "solid rock" allow for that Hero to drink a potion of healing, and then end up in a situation where he is still alive, but trapped forever? Surely just writing "dead" is as unambiguous as possible.


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